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Should I plead guilty or not guilty.
fef
post Thu, 16 Oct 2008 - 14:11
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Hello everyone.

My Dad received a notice of intended prosecution for an offence on 12th January. As I was driving that day he sent it back with my details on and told me about it.

I received a notice of intended prosecution dated 5th of February and another on the 20th March. I replied to the 20th of March one stating I was the driver.

I never heard anything else until I received a summons for failing to provide information regarding the driver of the vehicle.

My gut instinct was to plead not guilty because I had replied however having read the paperwork thoroughly it stated it encourages( not demands) that you get proof of posting and I obviously never did, it never entered my head to do so.

So my question is to anybody who had been in the same situation or knows how the court deals with this situation is- Is it worth pleading not guilty or am I wasting my time because I don't have any proof I replied?

If I am expected to have proof I am tempted to plead guilty to reduce my penalty.

I am loath to do so given I did reply, and especially because neither notification or even the court summons were recorded, but I don't want to cut my nose off to spite my face if my fate is already a forgone conclusion.

Many thank, in advance, for your help.

This post has been edited by fef: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 - 14:13
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post Thu, 16 Oct 2008 - 14:11
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spanner345
post Thu, 16 Oct 2008 - 14:15
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If you are within the first two years of driving, the 6 points for not replying, will mean your licence is revoked.

Are you within 2 years?


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fef
post Thu, 16 Oct 2008 - 14:18
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No I have been driving for 16 years and I have a clean licence.

My last 3 points were in 1997.
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andy_foster
post Thu, 16 Oct 2008 - 14:18
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What does the evidence disclosed with the summons say (as regards what paperwork was sent and received)?


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fef
post Thu, 16 Oct 2008 - 14:23
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To Andy-

1- A S172 request was sent on 5th February to....

2- On 20th March a further request for information was sent to....

3- I have checked the relevent systems where any records of replies to section 172 requests would be held and I can confirm there is no record of any further reply having been received.
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cjard
post Thu, 16 Oct 2008 - 14:28
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Mmm, technically you became guilty as charged on 5th March. That your 20th March one seems not to have been received is now an aggravation. You would now best succeed by setting before the court (or CPS, as was in a similar case I went through) that you received and responded to (and have witnesses to that fact) the 20th March S172.. If there is anything you can do to assist, such as a till receipt from the post office because you paid with credit card, or CCTV/post office clerk who knows you etc, then that will help but the basic problem is that youre acknowledging returning it late, and there doesnt seem to be a good reason mentioned in your post for you to have done so.. So technically youre still guilty under S172 unless you can show that there was a good reason

The relevant wording that means youre not-guilty is "the person on whom the notice is served shall not be guilty of an offence under this section if he shows either that he gave the information as soon as reasonably practicable after the end of that period or that it has not been reasonably practicable for him to give it"

Can you show that? Why did you respond late?

Basically you need to show:
there was a valid reason for not responding to the first one that you say you received, and
that you did indeed respond via first class post

And the prosecution must then show that you did not respond in a timely fashion, and that they did not receive your nomination

This post has been edited by cjard: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 - 14:31
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fef
post Thu, 16 Oct 2008 - 14:38
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QUOTE (cjard @ Thu, 16 Oct 2008 - 15:28) *
Mmm, technically you became guilty as charged on 5th March. That your 20th March one seems not to have been received is now an aggravation. You would now best succeed by setting before the court (or CPS, as was in a similar case I went through) that you received and responded to (and have witnesses to that fact) the 20th March S172.. If there is anything you can do to assist, such as a till receipt from the post office because you paid with credit card, or CCTV/post office clerk who knows you etc, then that will help but the basic problem is that youre acknowledging returning it late, and there doesnt seem to be a good reason mentioned in your post for you to have done so.. So technically youre still guilty under S172 unless you can show that there was a good reason

The relevant wording that means youre not-guilty is "the person on whom the notice is served shall not be guilty of an offence under this section if he shows either that he gave the information as soon as reasonably practicable after the end of that period or that it has not been reasonably practicable for him to give it"

Can you show that? Why did you respond late?

Basically you need to show:
there was a valid reason for not responding to the first one that you say you received, and
that you did indeed respond via first class post

And the prosecution must then show that you did not respond in a timely fashion, and that they did not receive your nomination


I have absolutely no way of proving postage.

Regarding the delay in replying, there didn't seem a large gap between them both arriving.

I received the reminder and remembered I must send it back and replied that same day.
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