PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Officer implied that he caught me speeding in the South Pole!, £500 fine for speeding on motorway in the Antarctica
X-treem
post Thu, 11 Oct 2007 - 13:11
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,193
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
From: London, UK
Member No.: 376



Ok, I'm camaraderising a bit, but yesterday I was in Warrington Magistrates' Court representing myself and cross-examined the police officer that observed me speeding south-bound on the M6 near Warrington at 00:10 on 19 February 2007.

First of all, the FPN had the wrong date on it - it stated 20 February 2007 - which the officer admitted in court was incorrect. However, I argued that this affected how I would've dealt with the FPN initially as I could neither admit to speeding nor even driving on the incorrect date that was stated.

The officer stated in his statement that he corroborated his opinion of me speeding using his calibrated speedometer on his police vehicle. I asked when it was calibrated. He said on manufacture of the vehicle. I stated that according to ACPO Guidelines, section 6.1 states that "A road policing vehicle must be fitted with a certified calibrated speedometer regularly tested in accordance with Force instructions." He then changed his mind and said that it is regularly calibrated but could not recall the "Force instructions". He said that he checks the speedometer's accuracy at the end of every shift. I pointed out that this does not mean it is calibrated at the time of the offence then and that his "accuracy check" does not constitute a calibration in accordance with section 6.1, but a required check that should be made in accordance with section 6.3 of the ACPO Guidelines.

I then asked how he makes his check at the end of his shift. He said using a stopwatch. I asked if it was a certified calibrated stopwatch as required by section 6.3. The prosecutor then produced a certificate, but it was dated 26 March 2007, after the event. I pointed this out and asked for a certificate to cover the date of the offence. They could not produce one saying that it was not requested by me - so I pointed out that it was strange that they made the effort to bring a post-dated one, but not for the date of the offence, whether or not one was requested.

I then produced a printout of this map of the world from www.daylightmap.com. It shows where in the world was light and where was dark at the exact time of the offence. I asked the officer to point out where in the world the offence took place. He pointed at the UK. I asked him if he was sure it wasn't in the South Pole region. He confirmed that it was definitely the M6 south-bound near Warrington. I then asked why on earth (so to speak) did he state that it was daylight at the time of the offence which was ten past midnight in the middle of February. The only place it is daylight at that local time in February is the South Pole.

I used this notion to make the point that, in addition to the mistake made regarding the actual date of the offence, how many more mistakes were made in the officer's statement such as the speed I was going, etc.

Anyway, it seemed I had the whole thing in the bag as I had rubbished the calibration certification of the speedometer and put the officer's statement's accuracy into question. But then they found that in the Road Traffic Act, a vehicle is considered to be speeding if it is the officer's opinion that it is, and this must be corroborated using a certified calibration speedometer... anywhere except... motorways!! On motorways, the only evidence that is required as to the speed of a vehicle is a single officer's opinion, and I saw this for myself in the Road Traffic Act.

Did anyone know this? I wish I'd known this to begin with as it would've saved me a 450-mile round trip to Warrington, £440 extra fine and an extra point on my license. So, anyone who has been caught speeding by a patrol vehicle on the motorway, be warned... you're pretty much screwed no matter what!

Anyway, it was still an amusing day in court interrogating a numpty police officer who doesn't even know what day it is or where he is on the planet, but was an expensive bit of entertainment. However, does anyone think it's worth appealing this on any grounds? Such as the original FPN date being wrong then not being entitled to the original £60 fine and 3 penalty points?

This post has been edited by X-treem: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 - 13:16


--------------------


Notable Victories:
  • Richard Rippon (2008): Clamped by Richard Rippon's firm Redroute. Successfully sued him in court resulting in an intense media and legal battle that eventually saw his downfall. See the success story here.
  • Luton Airport (2013): Clamped by Ontime Parking Solutions at London Luton Airport where the police assisted in the illegal clamping of my vehicle on private land, directly in contravention of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 eventually leading to all towing and clamping operations at the airport being ceased for several weeks. See the success story here.
  • Huntingdonshire District Council (2012): ECN from HDC in in Huntingdon which I contested in the Magistrates' Court. The matter was publicised in the local newspapers and HDC were shown to be wasteful of public money on a minor matter. See the success story here.
Current parking tally since 2001 (Council | Private):
  • UK: 87 | 15 tickets (inc. 5 | 9 clamps, 3 | 0 tows). Of those: 60 | 12 contested, 54 | 12 won, 0 | 0 pending.
  • NL: 4 | 0 tickets (inc. 0 | 0 clamps, 0 | 0 tows). Of those: 2 | 0 contested, 1 | 0 won, 0 | 0 pending.
I am also proud to be in the top 10 longest-serving members on this forum that have been active this year.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 9)
Advertisement
post Thu, 11 Oct 2007 - 13:11
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Glacier2
post Thu, 11 Oct 2007 - 13:28
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9,952
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 1,131



Might be worth appealing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
facade
post Thu, 11 Oct 2007 - 17:44
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 834
Joined: 7 Nov 2004
Member No.: 1,847



So you showed that he had no idea what the date was and couldn't tell night from day, and they still believed him that you were speeding with no corroborating evidence whatsoever ohmy.gif

Strikes me that something is wrong somewhere rolleyes.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JME
post Thu, 11 Oct 2007 - 19:15
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38
Joined: 5 Dec 2006
Member No.: 9,427



No corroboration needed on motorway, exceeding maximum speed limit on motorway is specifically excluded from the corroboration requirements of s89 RTRA 1984.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
andy_foster
post Thu, 11 Oct 2007 - 19:50
Post #5


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 20,975
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



S. 89(2) provides that (other than on motorways) the opinion of a single witness cannot be sufficient to convict. It does not state that the opinion of a single witness is irrefutable on motorways.


--------------------
Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Glacier2
post Thu, 11 Oct 2007 - 20:27
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9,952
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 1,131



I take it an appeal would be pointless.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
X-treem
post Fri, 12 Oct 2007 - 09:41
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,193
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
From: London, UK
Member No.: 376



QUOTE (andy_foster @ Thu, 11 Oct 2007 - 20:50) *
S. 89(2) provides that (other than on motorways) the opinion of a single witness cannot be sufficient to convict. It does not state that the opinion of a single witness is irrefutable on motorways.

Ah, true... I should've picked up on that in court. However, don't think it would've helped cos the Magistrates' words were that despite the errors made, the officer's statement was credible and they believe that I was indeed speeding.

I've written to my solicitor (Pryce Woodrow) with a link to this discussion to see what he thinks to me appealing on the grounds that the date on the original FPN was wrong (therefore I could not deal with the FPN properly).


--------------------


Notable Victories:
  • Richard Rippon (2008): Clamped by Richard Rippon's firm Redroute. Successfully sued him in court resulting in an intense media and legal battle that eventually saw his downfall. See the success story here.
  • Luton Airport (2013): Clamped by Ontime Parking Solutions at London Luton Airport where the police assisted in the illegal clamping of my vehicle on private land, directly in contravention of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 eventually leading to all towing and clamping operations at the airport being ceased for several weeks. See the success story here.
  • Huntingdonshire District Council (2012): ECN from HDC in in Huntingdon which I contested in the Magistrates' Court. The matter was publicised in the local newspapers and HDC were shown to be wasteful of public money on a minor matter. See the success story here.
Current parking tally since 2001 (Council | Private):
  • UK: 87 | 15 tickets (inc. 5 | 9 clamps, 3 | 0 tows). Of those: 60 | 12 contested, 54 | 12 won, 0 | 0 pending.
  • NL: 4 | 0 tickets (inc. 0 | 0 clamps, 0 | 0 tows). Of those: 2 | 0 contested, 1 | 0 won, 0 | 0 pending.
I am also proud to be in the top 10 longest-serving members on this forum that have been active this year.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jdfi
post Fri, 12 Oct 2007 - 12:35
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 962
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
From: England
Member No.: 13,384



Was this a BiB pull on the motorway, or was a postal NiP the first you knew of it?


--------------------
Everyone on this forum (even those who may be professionally qualified as something) give advice that is their laymans' opinion. This is given without liability. Everyone will assume you are telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and try to assist you if they can. Photos of signs/the area and scans of documents can help. Never throw anything away even if trivial! Tell all your friends about PePiPoo please!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
theunpalatabletr...
post Fri, 12 Oct 2007 - 18:29
Post #9


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Member No.: 13,266



The wrong date kills them. You can't possibly be convicted legally. Appeal. Threaten judicial review. Contact the OJC and kick up a major fuss about the magistrate.

This post has been edited by theunpalatabletruth: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 - 18:30
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
X-treem
post Fri, 12 Oct 2007 - 19:14
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,193
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
From: London, UK
Member No.: 376



QUOTE (theunpalatabletruth @ Fri, 12 Oct 2007 - 19:29) *
The wrong date kills them. You can't possibly be convicted legally. Appeal. Threaten judicial review. Contact the OJC and kick up a major fuss about the magistrate.

You serious?! Ok, how do I appeal? Is there information online about doing this? And do I contact the OJC separately (i.e., as well as appealing)?

Why do u think the wrong date kills them? The officer corrected himself in court and I had to admit to driving on the date they said in court - it was obvious that it was simply a typo. Are you saying that I can get off on a technicality that invalidates the whole FPN?


--------------------


Notable Victories:
  • Richard Rippon (2008): Clamped by Richard Rippon's firm Redroute. Successfully sued him in court resulting in an intense media and legal battle that eventually saw his downfall. See the success story here.
  • Luton Airport (2013): Clamped by Ontime Parking Solutions at London Luton Airport where the police assisted in the illegal clamping of my vehicle on private land, directly in contravention of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 eventually leading to all towing and clamping operations at the airport being ceased for several weeks. See the success story here.
  • Huntingdonshire District Council (2012): ECN from HDC in in Huntingdon which I contested in the Magistrates' Court. The matter was publicised in the local newspapers and HDC were shown to be wasteful of public money on a minor matter. See the success story here.
Current parking tally since 2001 (Council | Private):
  • UK: 87 | 15 tickets (inc. 5 | 9 clamps, 3 | 0 tows). Of those: 60 | 12 contested, 54 | 12 won, 0 | 0 pending.
  • NL: 4 | 0 tickets (inc. 0 | 0 clamps, 0 | 0 tows). Of those: 2 | 0 contested, 1 | 0 won, 0 | 0 pending.
I am also proud to be in the top 10 longest-serving members on this forum that have been active this year.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Wednesday, 12th August 2020 - 00:53
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.