PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Photographic Evidence, Urgent Advice Needed
Marc1984
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 21:21
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
From: West Yorkshire
Member No.: 3,597



Hi, I recieved a N.I.P through the letterbox.
it says I was recorded doing *36 mph exceeding the 30mph speed limit.
This is a road in Yeadon, Leeds which I have only driven twice before,
Its riddled with speed cameras everywhere and they are all 40mph,
apart from one part where for about 30 seconds it goes to 30 then back up to 40 again all the way to my destination.
i have been down the road and i just cant see where i could have been done.
i never noticed the flash of a camera. i never noticed a police officer with a radar or laser gun.
i did not get pulled up or issued with a ticket. i was took by suprise by the postman.
and i am a very cautious driver.
especially as i nearly lost my licence 2 year ago for doing 40 on an unsigned dual carriageway which was 30.

PLEASE READ THIS IF NOTHNG ELSE

I have 2 days left to hand this n.i.p back in.
It says as they do on them all, this allegation is supported by photographic evidence.
I want to see the evidence that i was speeding because i believe they have made it all up.
I believe that speed camera are innacurate. i was doing 6mph over the speed limit. 36 on a 30.
I also belive radar and laser guns are innacurate too.
How do i get this evidence?
Do i still have to send this n.i.p bACK? OR do i write a letterhead out asking for evidence.
or do i ring them directly from the number on the n.i.p?

please advise me, someone who knows what to do and where i stand.


--------------------
Please Help I cant live without my Car.
i need to work.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 16)
Advertisement
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 21:21
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Teufel
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 21:28
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,783
Joined: 6 Jul 2006
Member No.: 6,518



its a bit late you should have asked straight away for photos to help identify driver

if you do not reply you will be prosecuted for failing under s172 to supply

if summonsed for spedding you will see the photos

This post has been edited by Teufel: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 21:29
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marc1984
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 21:32
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
From: West Yorkshire
Member No.: 3,597



somebody told me to leave to the last minute, then send it by next day recorded delivery, in order to delay it?
Some cases they throw out of the window if they dont have the evidence is this true?
i think 36mph is harsh. i dont mind the fine, its the 3 points.


--------------------
Please Help I cant live without my Car.
i need to work.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Quattro
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 21:34
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,150
Joined: 9 Mar 2005
From: Yorkshire
Member No.: 2,532



Do not ring them.

If you wish to see the evidence you will need to plead not guilty and then it will be disclosed to you - if you are lucky.

Send back the NIP, filled in before your 28 days are up, or use the Pace statement, whichever you prefer.

oh, and don't phone them.


--------------------
The devices referred to in this Code of Practice, although the subject of rigorous field and laboratory testing, are only as reliable as the user. Richard Brunstrom. - Now that is worrying!

Prior opinion? - http://www.witlessandswindle.me.uk/

Don't bother clicking, someone's nicked it!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nemo
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 21:42
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,686
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
From: -------------
Member No.: 2,073



Hmm. All left a bit late really..

The response is due no later than 28 days after you received the NIP.

Fail to return the information and you commit the offence of failing to provide driver details.

If you had acted sooner, you could have written to the scammers and asked for 'copies of any photographs which may assist with identification of the driver'.

Whilst you still can write (and whilst you are unlikely to be summoned immediately for failing to provide), the fact remains that if you do not provide the driver's details you will have committed the offence of failing to provide within the timescales required by law.

If you were to subsequently challenge the reliability of the speed detection / evidence, and even if your case was rock solid, the scammers may choose to drop the speeding charge in favour of summoning you for failing to provide.

It would not bode well for defence of such a charge if the prosecution could demonstrate 27 odd days of complete inactivity on your part following receipt of the NIP.

To avert the possibility of a failing to provide offence being committed, you would need to provide the driver details before the 28 days has expired.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marc1984
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 21:44
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
From: West Yorkshire
Member No.: 3,597



ok thankyou thats been helpful, so i fill in the information about myself as the named driver on the n.i.p and then tick not guilty and send it in signed?
in fact tho, i cant actually see anywhere that there is an option to plead not guilty?

I am not familiar with PACE? whats that?


--------------------
Please Help I cant live without my Car.
i need to work.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nemo
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 21:56
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,686
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
From: -------------
Member No.: 2,073



QUOTE (Marc1984 @ Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 22:44) *
ok thankyou thats been helpful, so i fill in the information about myself as the named driver on the n.i.p and then tick not guilty and send it in signed?
in fact tho, i cant actually see anywhere that there is an option to plead not guilty?

They will say that there is no need for a guilty / not guilty tick box because, at this stage, you have not been 'charged' with any offence - they are merely asking for 'information'..

Miraculously, however, that information will be transformed into 50% of the prosecution's case against you.. mad.gif

To view any evidence once a driver has been nominated, any ensuing Conditional Offers of Fixed Penalty would require to be ignored and a court summons awaited. Once a plea of Not Guilty has been entered in response to the summons, the prosecution are required to disclose to the defendant any evidence on which they propose to rely. This would include photographs of the 'crime'.

Once in receipt of the photographs and other evidential items, the defendant can assess the strength of the case against them and decide whether to fight or whether to fold (by changing their plea to guilty).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marc1984
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 22:03
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
From: West Yorkshire
Member No.: 3,597



so basically what you are saying, is what i am already thinking, innocent until proven guilty?!
36 on a 30 is really tongue in cheek.
i have been to court before.
and i told them i dint trust the police officer who issued me a ticket because he said to me and i qoute
" look, Mr Blair says i have to catch a certain percentage of motorists a month, you are one of them. its my job"
so if i go to court, i will say basically i have braught it here because i dont trust traffic officers after that experience, and i want proof that i am not just a percentage but actually a law breaker and a criminal by exceeding the statutary limit by 6mph?
what do u think?


--------------------
Please Help I cant live without my Car.
i need to work.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nemo
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 22:20
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,686
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
From: -------------
Member No.: 2,073



QUOTE (Marc1984 @ Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 23:03) *
what do u think?

This is not in the Flame Pit so I will be very polite with my response.. wink.gif

I think anyone should have the right to view AND challenge any evidence which would be used against them without running the risk of incurring substantially heavier penalties compared to those had they just rolled over at the outset. Unfortunately, what I think counts for nowt..

And motorists in Magistrate' Courts - innocent until proven guilty ?? What do you think ?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marc1984
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 22:28
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
From: West Yorkshire
Member No.: 3,597



Well I won my last case, I got no points, just 100 fine n a 14 day ban.??????
I realise i have left this late but, i think today or tomoro was the 28th day.ooops.
but i been busy working. the world dont stop spinning does it. im imperfect.
is it too late to send tomorow a letter by next day recorded delivery asking for photographs to assist with identifying the driver, but state that just to keep my head above the water i have filled in the n.i.p anyway?


--------------------
Please Help I cant live without my Car.
i need to work.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marc1984
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 22:30
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
From: West Yorkshire
Member No.: 3,597



or should i just forget it, send in the n.i.p say guilty collect 3 points, pay the 60 fine, then ask for the evidence just in case i want to appeal after? is that more sensible?


--------------------
Please Help I cant live without my Car.
i need to work.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nemo
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 22:35
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,686
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
From: -------------
Member No.: 2,073



QUOTE (Marc1984 @ Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 23:28) *
is it too late to send tomorow a letter by next day recorded delivery asking for photographs to assist with identifying the driver, but state that just to keep my head above the water i have filled in the n.i.p anyway?

No harm in trying, but I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for photos to turn up..

I can't see the scammers being overly keen to assist you to identify the driver AFTER you have advised them of the driver..

Or by 'I have filled in the NIP anyway' do you mean that you do not intend returning your nomination within the 28 days ? If so, you are back to the offence of failing to provide.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marc1984
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 22:40
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
From: West Yorkshire
Member No.: 3,597



so if i sign the nip, and tick the box which says " i am the owner/but unable to provide details of driver,i fail to supply driver details under section 172 and now this matter will be taken to court" part, am i going to be charged with failing to provide? cant i tick that ,send it in, accompanied with a letter asking for photos to assist me with identifying the driver,? how about that?


--------------------
Please Help I cant live without my Car.
i need to work.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nemo
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 22:43
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,686
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
From: -------------
Member No.: 2,073



QUOTE (Marc1984 @ Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 23:30) *
or should i just forget it, send in the n.i.p say guilty collect 3 points, pay the 60 fine, then ask for the evidence just in case i want to appeal after? is that more sensible?

By completing the NIP /s.172, you are not pleading guilty or not guilty to anything..

As has already been posted, to view the evidence now you would need to nominate yourself as the driver and then ignore any Conditional Offers of Fixed Penalty which are issued to you.

In due course, you would likely be summoned to court for the alleged offence of excess speed.

If you were to enter a plea of Not Guilty in response to the summons, the prosecution would be required to provide you with copies of all of the 'evidence' (including photos) on which they planned to rely.

Once you had reviewed this evidence, you could decide whether to continue to fight or to change your plea to guilty.

If you entered a guilty plea, you would not be able to appeal the conviction but you could appeal the sentence.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marc1984
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 22:47
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
From: West Yorkshire
Member No.: 3,597



If there is no photographic evidence, where do i stand?
if there is photographic evidence, where do i stand?
Im beginning to get scared off even messing with the authorities just in case they come down on me like a tonne of bricks.?


--------------------
Please Help I cant live without my Car.
i need to work.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nemo
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 22:55
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,686
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
From: -------------
Member No.: 2,073



QUOTE (Marc1984 @ Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 23:40) *
so if i sign the nip, and tick the box which says " i am the owner/but unable to provide details of driver,i fail to supply driver details under section 172 and now this matter will be taken to court" part, am i going to be charged with failing to provide? cant i tick that ,send it in, accompanied with a letter asking for photos to assist me with identifying the driver,? how about that?

OK. It is never advisable to claim that you do not know who was driving if you know that to be untrue.

Either you know who was driving or you don't and you need to be truthful.

IMO, irrespective of known driver or otherwise, unless you can provide a very good reason for sitting on the NIP for 27 days and doing absolutely nothing, I reckon your inactivity will do you no favours should you end up defending a charge of failing to provide..
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nemo
post Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 23:07
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,686
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
From: -------------
Member No.: 2,073



QUOTE (Marc1984 @ Wed, 25 Jul 2007 - 23:47) *
If there is no photographic evidence, where do i stand?
if there is photographic evidence, where do i stand?
Im beginning to get scared off even messing with the authorities just in case they come down on me like a tonne of bricks.?

There is photographic evidence. But the scammers are under no obligation to release it to you at this stage anyway..

The system requires that you are summoned and have entered a plea of Not Guilty before you are entitled to be provided with copies of the evidence. This course of action would be likely to incur a minimum court cost (payable by you) of about £40.

With respect, your inactivity has not helped the cause. Its a shame because an earlier request for copies of any photos would have probably seen the scammers oblige.

Requesting photos now and not nominating a driver, without a very good reason why you did nothing for 27 days, would leave you open to a charge of failing to provide. Upon conviction, this is likely to result in a higher fine than would be awarded for a 36 in a 30..
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Monday, 9th December 2019 - 15:38
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.