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Dumfries & Galloway - S172, Split From: NIP tayside scotland
Rev-head
post Tue, 13 Mar 2007 - 20:02
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Cheers
Neighbour has just handed me a card of recorded delivery of a letter that has to be sign for by me ?..so i suspect that to be the NIP been posted back to be filled in


Will wait for there next move and see what happens?........
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post Tue, 13 Mar 2007 - 20:02
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firefly
post Wed, 14 Mar 2007 - 08:03
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QUOTE (Rev-head @ Tue, 13 Mar 2007 - 20:02) *
Neighbour has just handed me a card of recorded delivery of a letter that has to be sign for by me ?..so i suspect that to be the NIP been posted back to be filled in

I'd be surprised if it is from the police. I have experience with Tayside and they never send anything out by recorded. That being said, it may be from the local Procurator Fiscal blink.gif as I know that the PF in Tayside use that method of post.

Whatever it is, you need to get it. Pointless ignoring it.

You haven't ordered anything off ebay recently have you? mellow.gif


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Rev-head
post Tue, 20 Mar 2007 - 17:42
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well got my recorded delivery and guess what i was caught speeding on the M74 in Dumfries and Galloway wacko.gif .this is not funny .the thing is i saw the camera van well in advance and i was in the slow lane and slowed down to 65 and a Luton van was in front of me so the picture they must have got would be pretty dodgy

Anyway i can see me having fun over the next few months
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popdog28
post Wed, 21 Mar 2007 - 11:09
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QUOTE (Rev-head @ Tue, 20 Mar 2007 - 17:42) *
well got my recorded delivery and guess what i was caught speeding on the M74 in Dumfries and Galloway wacko.gif .this is not funny .the thing is i saw the camera van well in advance and i was in the slow lane and slowed down to 65 and a Luton van was in front of me so the picture they must have got would be pretty dodgy

Anyway i can see me having fun over the next few months


They got me at nearly 800 metres here, thats over 1/2 a mile away. How quick were you allegedly doing?
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Rev-head
post Wed, 16 May 2007 - 15:14
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well had the police at the door today no avoiding them as i had friends over (kringe)....for dumfries offence.... they came in to charge me with not filling in S172 correctly therefore not correctly identifying myself as the driver!!........read me my rights and left...they did not me want to sign anything ..is this a first ?......and what next?
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jeffreyarcher
post Wed, 16 May 2007 - 16:33
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QUOTE (Rev-head @ Wed, 16 May 2007 - 16:14) *
they came in to charge me with not filling in S172 correctly therefore not correctly identifying myself as the driver!!........read me my rights and left...they did not me want to sign anything

What force area are you in?
Did they make a verbal S172 requirement?
Did they ask you anything about whether you had received the form, or anything about you filling it in?
QUOTE (Rev-head @ Wed, 16 May 2007 - 16:14) *
..is this a first ?

As far as we know, yes.
QUOTE (Rev-head @ Wed, 16 May 2007 - 16:14) *
......and what next?

Hope that the ECtHR get a a move on.
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andypandy
post Wed, 16 May 2007 - 17:05
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QUOTE
well had the police at the door today no avoiding them as i had friends over (kringe)....for dumfries offence.... they came in to charge me with not filling in S172 correctly therefore not correctly identifying myself as the driver!!........read me my rights and left...they did not me want to sign anything ..is this a first ?......and what next?


sad.gif


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Rev-head
post Wed, 16 May 2007 - 18:09
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QUOTE (jeffreyarcher @ Wed, 16 May 2007 - 17:33) *
QUOTE (Rev-head @ Wed, 16 May 2007 - 16:14) *
they came in to charge me with not filling in S172 correctly therefore not correctly identifying myself as the driver!!........read me my rights and left...they did not me want to sign anything

What force area are you in?
Did they make a verbal S172 requirement?
Did they ask you anything about whether you had received the form, or anything about you filling it in?
QUOTE (Rev-head @ Wed, 16 May 2007 - 16:14) *
..is this a first ?

As far as we know, yes.
QUOTE (Rev-head @ Wed, 16 May 2007 - 16:14) *
......and what next?

Hope that the ECtHR get a a move on.


Tayside division
Did they make a verbal S172 requirement No never mentioned about needing to sign anything or confirming i was the driver ..needed my driving license number and usual stuff DOB,Occupation
Did they ask you anything about whether you had received the form, or anything about you filling it in?....yes and i explained that i had filled in and sent off they had mentioned that on the notes they had (Dumfries) sent out form to be filled in again by myself 2 times as there was no date or signature on the orginal form

Will be just a case of wait and see i suspect ......Is time for me to go to soliciters?

Cheers for any advice


This post has been edited by Rev-head: Wed, 16 May 2007 - 18:13
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jeffreyarcher
post Wed, 16 May 2007 - 18:34
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QUOTE (Rev-head @ Wed, 16 May 2007 - 19:09) *
Is time for me to go to soliciters?

Due to the distance, it would probably have to be a solicitor somewhere in Dumfriesshire. One from Tayside would probably be too expensive due to the travel time. Unfortunately, we don't know where the court is yet.
There's plenty of time yet, but it's probably not too early to start looking for one though. A couple of p[eople have been up in Dumfries, and used local solicitors, but AFAIK, nobody has found any that they would reccommend. sad.gif

This post has been edited by jeffreyarcher: Wed, 16 May 2007 - 18:35
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Rev-head
post Wed, 16 May 2007 - 20:27
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Going to speak to company lawyer tomorrow and get some insight into this and maybe a good solicitor reconmendation from himself for Dumfries
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The Rookie
post Wed, 30 May 2007 - 04:45
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I do find it bizarre that they charge you, which to be honest only looks like a scare tactic as they only needed to do that by post, it would have seemed to me much more sensible for them to issue you with a verbal S172 request, which you would have had to have responded to!

To me that looks like bully boy tactics (to be honest I can't see the particular BiB's getting much satisfaction from it) to frighten you into signing, than anything designed to actually progress the case, unless they tie in the BiB's witness statement saying you filled in the form, with the form itself? But to get that to stick they would have to drag the PC's sorry ass to court on the day otherwise you could contest his written statement.

Just to be clear they never catually asked if you were driving at the time of the alleged offence?

Simon


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Rev-head
post Wed, 30 May 2007 - 18:16
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When they came round it was quite simple ....I made a joke about them having to do Dumfries and galloway dirty work and that kicked them off telling me that they spend half there day chasing up these things and then to tell me were all the speed cameras are in the surronding areas so to avoid them..lol....then they asked me about NIP and about the 2 remindersthey sent me to sign and date which they say they never recieved back ?????.......then said they had to caution me for violation of S172 BLah blah .....I signed nothing and admitted to nothing ....no comment after they cautioned me.....Said cheerio and have a nice day
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Rev-head
post Mon, 11 Jun 2007 - 12:57
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Well today got letter through the door from Dumfries PF...........they have offer me 3 points and a £120 fine and i have 28days to except it or go to court

What do you guys think then?

Cheers
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Rev-head
post Tue, 12 Jun 2007 - 08:40
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Was thinking would i be able to ask for picture evidence now
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jeffreyarcher
post Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 00:25
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QUOTE (Rev-head @ Mon, 11 Jun 2007 - 13:57) *
Well today got letter through the door from Dumfries PF...........they have offer me 3 points and a £120 fine and i have 28days to except it or go to court

I assume that this is for S172 only?
If so, does it mention what legislation the COFP itself is issued under, e.g. S75 RTOA 1988 or S** Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 199*?

QUOTE (Rev-head @ Mon, 11 Jun 2007 - 13:57) *
What do you guys think then?

Whatever else, I wouldn't accept before the ECtHr has announced their decision in O'H & F v the U.K., on the 29th of June.

QUOTE (Rev-head @ Tue, 12 Jun 2007 - 09:40) *
Was thinking would i be able to ask for picture evidence now

1) You are only entitled to any evidence once you have been summonsed, and plead 'not guilty'.
2) The picture evidence is essentially irrelevent to a S172 prosecution.

Did either of the 'requests to sign' state that it was an offence not to sign?

This post has been edited by jeffreyarcher: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 00:42
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Rev-head
post Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 08:39
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Scanned document so we are clear what it is

Your thoughts gentleman?





Cheers

This post has been edited by Rev-head: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 08:41
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Gaza
post Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 11:09
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QUOTE (Rev-head @ Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 09:39) *
Scanned document so we are clear what it is

Your thoughts gentleman?





Cheers


Very interesting offer. Perhaps I am missing something but it would appear they are offering you the option to pay a £120 fine but there is no mention of penalty points. This is probably a cock-up on their part but it may well be worth taking them up on their offer and if they return your license with the points pointing out to them that nowhere on the offer did it mention they would award 3 points.
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bama
post Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 11:23
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para (2) on page 1 says ~ in your case you will get endorsed with 3 points


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Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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Rev-head
post Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 11:30
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Well iam hanging it out till the end of the month and hopefully O'H & F v the U.K case will go my way and i can till them to stick it
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Gaza
post Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 13:40
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QUOTE (bama @ Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 12:23) *
para (2) on page 1 says ~ in your case you will get endorsed with 3 points


Doh. blush.gif blush.gif blush.gif
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