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Danlp6
post Sat, 14 Apr 2007 - 00:32
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Hi there, newbie here.

Tonight i received a FPN for 'exceeding the 40mph limit'

Now, he wasnt behind me, he was behind another car which he also FPN'd, and he disnt say what speed i was doing, but claimed i was racing(which i wasnt!)

I already have 3 points and ive only got a month until i get a 12 point licence.

Do i have anything i can do?
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post Sat, 14 Apr 2007 - 00:32
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Danlp6
post Sat, 14 Apr 2007 - 12:10
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well ive spoken to a couple of people, my dad is an ex traffic officer, he says they can do me for exceeding the limit by estimation(there were 2 coppers) but, their view of me would have been obstructed by the other car, therefore not really being able to judge my speed. also if i take it to court then plead guilty, i should get a 3 week ban, a fine and some points, but not have to retake my test? I need my car for work and my boss has said he will testify saying i need the car as i can be onsite anywhere in the UK.

I asked when i was put in the back if he had the calibration certificates for the vehicle(it is a panda car) he replied he would get it done before the end of his shift(now, where would he manage to get it done at 10pm on a friday night?)


Ive also been told by a few people that a Panda car cant nick me for speeding what so ever? Can someone please outline the law in this respect for me.

Also, the points on my licence, are they from the time of conviction or date of the offence?

what will be the best option. I cant afford to loose my licence.

Thanks

This post has been edited by Danlp6: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 - 12:11
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xantia
post Sat, 14 Apr 2007 - 19:51
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Danlp6.


The Police vehicle would have to be fitted with a calibrated speedometer & a certificate duly issued.

The officer would have to check the accuracy of the speedometer at a certified measured distance -usually 1 mile or half a mile against a stop watch for example. These checks should be carried out prior to any speed enforcement & at the conclusion of the officers shift. ( Hence his remark about checking it at the end of the shift)

The points on your licence will commence from the date of the offence.

Hope this helps. smile.gif
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Danlp6
post Sat, 14 Apr 2007 - 22:32
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Thanks for the reply, see this is a Panda car, and he was on general duties, not on speed watch. How far do they have to follow? but also, he wasnt directly behind me, so cant judge my speed?

Thanks again
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Monster
post Mon, 16 Apr 2007 - 11:35
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Danlp6

You don’t mention your speed but if your father thinks you’ll get a ban I guess it’s quite high.

As for not being able to judge your speed as you were in front of the other car. If the car behind you (For examples sake) was travelling at 100mph and was behind you with nowhere to go then you must be travelling at around the same speed or he would either have to overtake you or slow down to your speed.

Hope this makes sense.


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theShao
post Mon, 16 Apr 2007 - 14:24
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This has some similarities to my current situation regards being very close to reaching the 6 points limit for new drivers. It's pretty awkward, because as i understand it, with the New Driver scheme, if you accumulate 6 points in the first 2 years, the DVLA revoke your license, regardless of what the court choose to do (the court cant give you the 3 points and still let you keep the license, it's not in their hands). Your only way to avoid the rovocation (which basically means you have to re-apply for a provisional, then re-do theory and proctical tests) is to either avoid the charge (timeout, convince a court you're not guilty etc) or plead guilty and do your best to persuade a court to give you anything other than the three points. I believe they can give 2 points, for example, and they could give a temporary ban without giving you the points. best of luck whichever way you go, personally i was at 39 (i doubt that, but not worth fighting...) in a 30, i'm going to just throw myself on the mercy of the magistrates, i need the bike for work and there's nothing to gain by making me re-apply for my license.

This post has been edited by theShao: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 - 14:26
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Danlp6
post Tue, 17 Apr 2007 - 16:56
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My dad doesnt know what i would get if i went to court.

However, my friend got caught doing 51 in a 30, and was told by his solicitor that if he goes to court he can plead guilty and get a 3week ban instead of loosing his licence.
but he got 5points and a fine. I can cope with a fine, but i cant afford the time out of work to retake my test. As i need my car to travel to site which can be anywhere in the UK.

I was going quite fast but, they didnt get a speed on me, and the car they caught was catching up on me... I do still need to contact a solicitor about it.

Thanks
Dan
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Teufel
post Tue, 17 Apr 2007 - 16:59
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if you are seriously thinking of fighting this over the eveidence of the coppers
calibration etc you need a good motoring solicitor
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Danlp6
post Wed, 18 Apr 2007 - 06:07
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QUOTE (Teufel @ Tue, 17 Apr 2007 - 17:59) *
if you are seriously thinking of fighting this over the eveidence of the coppers
calibration etc you need a good motoring solicitor



Well he didnt get a speed on me, just said i was exceeding the 40limit. and dont panda cars have to follow you for 1 mile? the length of the dual carriageway is less than half a mile...
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The Rookie
post Wed, 18 Apr 2007 - 11:33
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ACPO guidleines dictate a minimum 0.2 mile follow...

6 points and your licenee is revoked, this is totally different to a ban as you have to start by re-applying for a provisional licence and going through all the tests a new driver would need to. Shame on your Dad as an ex-traffic he should know the law a lot better than he does!

Fighting a follow check by 2 officers is next to impossible without EVIDENCE as the courts will believe the BiB, so you would need a Video or similar, possibly a sworn statement from the other driver (if he's a total stranger) that he was catching you would help. The mags can't currently give less than 3 points unless you can convince of a special reason not to endorse at all, which is very very unlikley from what you say.

Otherwise your best bet is to drag it out as long as possible so that you can plan ahead for your revocation.

Simon


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Danlp6
post Fri, 20 Apr 2007 - 18:43
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 18 Apr 2007 - 12:33) *
ACPO guidleines dictate a minimum 0.2 mile follow...

6 points and your licenee is revoked, this is totally different to a ban as you have to start by re-applying for a provisional licence and going through all the tests a new driver would need to. Shame on your Dad as an ex-traffic he should know the law a lot better than he does!

Fighting a follow check by 2 officers is next to impossible without EVIDENCE as the courts will believe the BiB, so you would need a Video or similar, possibly a sworn statement from the other driver (if he's a total stranger) that he was catching you would help. The mags can't currently give less than 3 points unless you can convince of a special reason not to endorse at all, which is very very unlikley from what you say.

Otherwise your best bet is to drag it out as long as possible so that you can plan ahead for your revocation.

Simon



Thank you!

My dad hasnt been in the force for atleast 15 odd years! Im going to try for a time out, i.e send the FPN back saying i want to take it to court on the 27th day etc, and hope i can drag it out long enough.

Dan
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Danlp6
post Sat, 15 Sep 2007 - 09:24
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Bring up an old topic.

I recived my summons today.

They say they checked the speed of the police vehicle by means of a LT20/20 and it showed 30mph:
" I checked the speed of the vehicle by means of an LT20/20 laser a pescribed device approved by the secretary of state under section 20 of the road traffic offenders act 1988. To the best of my knowledge and belief the device was operated in accordance with the approval given. The speed display recorded on the meter was 30mph"

But it said he did this on the 18th of april. 5 days after the offence.

Do i have any come back there?

Also, The statement says that I was being followed by a peugeot 205 and he has got the Reg plate wrong, its f985 not f485. Does this make the statement invalid?

PLease help Im summond next monday!
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Danlp6
post Sun, 16 Sep 2007 - 09:57
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Bump!
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The Rookie
post Mon, 17 Sep 2007 - 11:47
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It sounds like the statemnet refers to a totally different offence and car, in your first post he was following you, now it was an LTi 20.20 (laser gun, has to be operated statically) and that the pull was 18 days after your alleged offence.

What offence date does the summons give.

This could be your lucky day, plead not guilty at the first hearing and a date will be scheduled for your actual trial, when you get to that anyone with any competatnce will get it thrown out as there will be no evidence of you commiting an offence on the day you were originally alleged to ahve done so!

Simon


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Danlp6
post Mon, 17 Sep 2007 - 18:32
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Hi simon,
Thanks for the reply, The statement is written by another officer saying he checked the speed of the marked for focus using the lti 20.20.

I believe this is them trying to state that the speedo is accurate in the focus.

As a motor mechanic, I know for a fact that NO speedo factory fitted is 100% accurate. So this IMO is an Untrue statement?
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Bing o
post Tue, 18 Sep 2007 - 10:39
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With two policemen, they don't need a callibrated speedo to form an opinion that you were speeding. Policeman 1 says "He is speeding", Policeman 2 says "he is speeding" ergo, you are speeding.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 18 Sep 2007 - 11:42
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Ok sorry, was confused by the posts - but a calibration check 5 days later is worthless, however its the officers statements that are important...

Simon


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Danlp6
post Wed, 19 Sep 2007 - 16:58
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Cheers

Right, just phoned dvla and if i get another 3 points its done by the date of the offence, so i will be loosing my licence.

Im going there and im going to explain how im a mechanic by trade, and if i get any more points on my licence i will have to retrain for another career, I need my licence to road test cars after completing work.

I can cape with a month off the road, but any more poiints and my licence revoked is meaning that it would be about 3 months out of work until i get my licence again blah blah...
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Danlp6
post Mon, 24 Sep 2007 - 11:34
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Just got back, 28-day ban and £100 fine.
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EU_Foreigner
post Mon, 24 Sep 2007 - 13:40
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so no points and not losing license then I assume?
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