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Received NIP & COFP help please, Help please
Marvellous
post Wed, 11 Apr 2007 - 17:47
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Hampshire
Date of the offence: - 06/03/2007
Date of the NIP: - 16/03/2007
Date you received the NIP: - 16/03/2007
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A33, WEST QUSY ROAD, SOUTHAMPTON (FIXED CAMERA) Contrary to S81 (1)RTRA 84 Sch 2 RTOA 88
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Travelling into Southampton, apparently set off camera, didn't notice at the time. The speed limit drops from 50 to 40 to 30 quite quickly.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v2.2.0: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 18:42:03 +0100



These are the answers you've given so far:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England


Hi

I received the NIP and sent it back confirming I was the driver before i got a chance to read this website. I would like to avoid the points if possible, I can't confirm if i was breaking the limit or not, but at least want to make as difficult as possible for them. I want to see photographic evidence before accepting the points at least.

The clocked speed was 37 in a 30 limit.

I haven't sent the PACE statement yet, as i have already signed and returned the NIP, I have now received the COFP, what should i do?


Thanks
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post Wed, 11 Apr 2007 - 17:47
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Marvellous
post Mon, 13 Aug 2007 - 12:44
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Marvellous
post Mon, 13 Aug 2007 - 12:45
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Hi, i've posted scans on again. Any help appreciated.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 13 Aug 2007 - 14:26
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Nothing in there of help, if you want to fight on you will need to plead not guilty and see if they disclose the S172 responce, you will also want a colour version of the picture to see if the Magenta filter was in place.

Simon


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Marvellous
post Mon, 13 Aug 2007 - 15:34
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Here it is in colour, doesn't look particularly Magenta to me?

What is the S172 response, just want to know if there's any point in continuing the fight?
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Marvellous
post Tue, 14 Aug 2007 - 13:50
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Thanks Rookie - i'm prepared to drag this out as long as possible, but is there anything i can do, what do you suggest.
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Marvellous
post Wed, 15 Aug 2007 - 08:22
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Any advice?
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Marvellous
post Thu, 16 Aug 2007 - 10:37
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Has anyone got an opinion on if its worth continuing to challenge this or is this a lost cause?
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The Rookie
post Thu, 16 Aug 2007 - 12:52
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Photo's never look very magenta, the blanked off number plate is the best place to see if it looks Magenta or not!

The front wheel is on the middle line (although accuracy is poor due to the silly alignement!) so corroboration check is OK.

2 choices at the moment...
1/ Plead guilty and get the discount (for what its worth) for an early plea
2/ Plead not guilty and see if they get their house in order in time for the trial, at which point you either

1/ Plead guilty if they do.
2/ Plead not guilty if they don't.

Simon


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Marvellous
post Fri, 17 Aug 2007 - 01:05
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Yes it does look magenta on the number plate.

I will plead not guilty, as I assume there's still hope from what you've said.

So what do you mean by them not getting their house in order before the court date?

I'm assuming that when i plead NG by post, i won't hear anything else from them and in court they will use the photo evidence.

1. So if I don't hear anything before the court date (in Nov 07), what do I do? Say the lines on the picture don't prove the speed?

Thanks.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 17 Aug 2007 - 07:45
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The point is they haven't disclosed your PACE ws, so no proof of speeding, if after you plead NG they don't disclose it, then you need two points prepared for the court date, no proof of driver and why they can't pull it out of the hat on the day, and the case law that says they can't adjourn just to get their house in order.

Simon


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Marvellous
post Sat, 18 Aug 2007 - 23:09
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Ok so I will plead NG by post.

1. should i do this now or wait til nearer the court date NOV 07?
2. should i send anything else with this?
3. you said they haven't disclosed PACE ws, so no proof of speeding. Aren't the 5 scans I posted evidence?
4. just to clarify I didn't send the PACE letter thing off at outset, I just signed the form confirming i was the driver. Does your point about not disclosing the PACE ws statement still apply?
5. your point about no proof of driver, does the fact i signed the form saying i was the driver mean i can't use this?
6. so after posting the NG plea off, what do i do next?
7. am I expecting to be sent something (PACE ws) before the court date after pleading NG?

Sorry for probably being thick, I have tried to figure this out from other threads but still not sure if the whole PACE ws has any relevance to me as I didn't use it at outset.

Thanks for all the advice.
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Marvellous
post Mon, 20 Aug 2007 - 17:35
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Any thoughts, should i go ahead and plead NG by post?
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Marvellous
post Tue, 21 Aug 2007 - 11:55
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Any ideas?
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The Rookie
post Tue, 21 Aug 2007 - 11:56
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No-one will tell you what to do, merely offer advice so you can make the right decieison FOR YOU.

I would personally plead NG by post and see what they come up with before the trial proper, if its all in order then I would then plead guilty, if not I would fight on the basis of whatever error there was., others would contest the use of teh PACE ws and its admissability and then appeal pending Burgess-james appeal.

Simon


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Marvellous
post Thu, 4 Oct 2007 - 22:16
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Member No.: 11,458



Hi

my court summons is mid Nov what should I receive in the meantime?
When can I expect to hear something?
Do I chase the court up if I haven't heard by a certain date?

Just want to be prepared, thanks again.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 5 Oct 2007 - 00:02
Post #36


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Please try and do some background reading, this has all been gone through before......

1/ Witness statements, 2 one from the camera loader/unloader and one from the person who issued the NIP/S172 request
2/ Photographs from approved device
3/ Proof of driver, a signed S172 responce (in your case your PACE ws)

Case law you need are DPP V Thornley that all this has to be supplied to you before 7 days before the trial, there are also two caes laws in the members area for resisting an adjournment when they haven't done this, one is V Camberwell youth court...

Simon


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Marvellous
post Sun, 7 Oct 2007 - 01:11
Post #37


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Member No.: 11,458



Thanks Rookie - you must think i'm stupid or lazy, but please believe me i've spent hours on here trying to find the answers myself. I would get a certain satisfaction doing this myself without using a solicitor, but i've got to be realistic about my understanding.

As you can see from the scans I posted I have received:
1. Witness statements
2. Photo
3. Proof of driver, (I did sign the original form saying I was the driver)

Sorry, can't find anything in the case files section with a case the same as mine, i.e. received all the above and got to come up with something at court to win.
I've googled the case law's mentioned and they don't make enough sense to use myself, nothing comes up when i search the site.

In summary -

1. If there is a case same as mine PLEASE post the link.
2. Having already received above 1,2,3 am I expecting anything else
3. On the assumption i've got to turn up at court and win this on a technicality or something, if there's not something I can do myself can someone recommend a good solicitor to help.
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The Rookie
post Sun, 7 Oct 2007 - 02:05
Post #38


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From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



pm me an email address and I will send you a copy of DPP v Thornley, this gives all the relvant statutes ...

However you say they have statements, photo and proof of driver (my connection here is slow, so I can't look at them), so what else do they need, is your PACE ws included or not, and if not, what proof of driver is there?

Simon


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Marvellous
post Wed, 10 Oct 2007 - 08:06
Post #39


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Posts: 31
Joined: 4 Apr 2007
Member No.: 11,458



I've decided to pay a solicitor to have a look at the case before making a decision. So as a last request if anyone can have a look at the scans i've posted on and confirm if i'd be wasting my time paying a solicitor i'd appreciate it.

Thanks Rookie for your help, appreciate you can't look at the scans yourself.
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Chas820
post Wed, 10 Oct 2007 - 08:49
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It might be worth asking when the piezo strips were checked replaced,read this

QUOTE
This excellent Australian anti-speed camera website previously stated the following on piezo sensors:

http://www.roadsense.com.au/
QUOTE
Piezos have the advantage that you can tell which lane the vehicle was travelling in, but they are expensive and difficult to install. The best warranty you will get from a manufacturer is 18 months (only if installed properly). If the piezos haven't been replaced after that time period, then you really should be questioning the accuracy of those sites.


This post has been edited by Chas820: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 - 08:59
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