G24 strike again - i been a bit naughty but they are wrong, parked too long but the PCN is all to cock ??? Options

[superted87]

Bonjourno L&G's



STORY - I live in London in wandsworth near the big B&Q. I watched for a few weeks as this one car sat in the corner of the car park never really leaving but he did move every other day a few metres in to another space. I assumed that he was not stupid enough to be getting fined every day so the parking scheme must not work. So without wanting to be fined by the council on the street i parked my car in B&Q for the night. (601 minutes to be exact). then moved it in the morning. Now technically i did not prevent anyone from parking because the shop was shut during these hours of overnight parking so they have not reallly lost anything for me being there but low and behold our friends G24 came along and decided to send me a Civil B***S*** notice as if they are the police or someone official . They want £95 or £75 if paid in 14 days.

CONTEST- (can someone individually clarify these please)

1. they state that my father the owner or keeper or hirer is responsible for the fine. he never did anything wrong though. it was me

2. they state that the allotted time was 90 minutes free and i exceeded it. i have a photo of a sign that says 2 hours so this document is false. can i write to them saying that this car park does not exist. there is one with a 2 hours limit. maybe i was in that one??

3. do they have to ticket my car physically on the car???

4. how long have they got to issue the notice after the incident???

5. the sign reads "Unauthorised parking is not allowed for more than two hours". if i was to tell them that some spotty B&Q brigade said i could leave it there overnight is that authorisation and would G24 leave me alone??

6. if you question their calibration etc of cameras/ Number plate recognition software what happens.

REAL PROBLEM - angry father wants it to all go away asap and has not got time to fight it. if they transfer it to me then i am happy with that and i will do it my end but i need a quick resolution, no DCA's knocking on the door phone calls etc.


LASTLY - cheers for any help

ted

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[eddie1234567]

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=14193

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=18418

Have a read of these 2 to start with, they will answer most of your questions (don't think they address the father issue though )

Then come back with any questions

[David Griffith]

Your biggest problem will be the last one, i.e. your dad not wanting to fight.

G24 won't back off your dad until they're paid or realise they'll get nothing. They have no case against him, but they won't let that stop them.
Eventually they'll turn it over to debt collectors, who will need chasing off in a similar fashion.

If he simply names you as driver and hopes that it goes away, they will probably quote a piece of RTA 1991 that defines the owner as being responsible for parking tickets, which is the case for council issued ones under DPE, but has no bearing on the invoice they've sent him.

Assuming that all the signs are valid, and that a contract really was created, then your father is not a party to it

[eddie1234567]

Your biggest problem will be the last one, i.e. your dad not wanting to fight.

G24 won't back off your dad until they're paid or realise they'll get nothing. They have no case against him, but they won't let that stop them.
Eventually they'll turn it over to debt collectors, who will need chasing off in a similar fashion.

If he simply names you as driver and hopes that it goes away, they will probably quote a piece of RTA 1991 that defines the owner as being responsible for parking tickets, which is the case for council issued ones under DPE, but has no bearing on the invoice they've sent him.

Assuming that all the signs are valid, and that a contract really was created, then your father is not a party to it

Teufel may have comments on the dangers of this. But could you act as your dads agent "only in relation to answering the statement made to him about 'as registered keeper' and only in relation to not being party to a contract - and not as anything to do with driving or parking the car", therefore he doesn't have to have time to deal with this.

The standard response about not being the RK could then be amended to remove the bit about 'I have asked who was driving' (although you don't have to help them in that respect anyway).

But if that is ok, your dad and you would have to keep on the ball or your dad may decide to string you up anyway

[superted87]

so i have sent G24 a letter saying that my father did not enter any contract and in fact it was me driving. I asked them to send any other crap they want to me rather than him. then i will simply claim that there is no car park in smugglers way wandsworth with 90 minutes limit so i could not have parked in it. I will not pay anything until they send me an invoice for being parked for 601 mins in a car park where 2 hours was allowed. maybe i should try to park there for 91 minutes and see what they do.

basically i entered into a contract for 2 hours free so i never breached a 90 minute contract, i breached a 2 hour contract.

dads latest idea was to ask them to accept the charge for parking of 27.00 that NCP charges across the road. this is a true representation of there loss had they operated a pay as you go parking lot.

if they harass my father then what do i do. send them a letter saying that they are now in contravention of the laws regarding harassment and this is a warning to stop right away?? i am new to all this so any further advice is welcome.

thanks guys

[superted87]

forgot to ask,

i looked in those two examples above but could not find a definitive on -

a.) do they have to ticket me on the car ?

b.) how long do they have to issue a ticket before it is deemed too long ago to act upon ??

[Teufel]

a - no - the ltter is an invoice - no req to tkt car

b - 6 yrs to claim a civil debt but unreasonable delay in issuing the invoice
would probably invalidate contract as unfair so probably 6 months

[superted87]

hmmm , cheers

i will wait for a reply from them and if they transfer the debt to me then they can come knocking on my door if they like but i will be in the flaklands for 6 months. lol. hopefully they will accept my payment of the same as 24hrs in the NCP across the road.

Cheers

ted

Ted

[superted87]

G24 wrote back this week. they dont really want to know who was driving so they are still pursuing my father. he is now thinking its funny to fight them and is now helping me out a bit. good hey.


He has written a letter saying that it is law that an invoice only pursues the person who owes the money/broke the contract/took the goods etc. so leave him alone or his solicitor will rape you wallet.

he also told them to contact me, and that only when i recieve a letter should the 14 days of cheap fines begin. not as they say that i only have 7 days left to pay the reduced settlement.

hopefully a letter for me soon and then i can throw some law speak about dis-propotionate penalties etc.

anyway thanks for keeping up to date with me guys this site is fantastic. keep up the slippery antics that you guys do so well.

[eddie1234567]

G24 wrote back this week. they dont really want to know who was driving so they are still pursuing my father. he is now thinking its funny to fight them and is now helping me out a bit. good hey.


He has written a letter saying that it is law that an invoice only pursues the person who owes the money/broke the contract/took the goods etc. so leave him alone or his solicitor will rape you wallet.

he also told them to contact me, and that only when i recieve a letter should the 14 days of cheap fines begin. not as they say that i only have 7 days left to pay the reduced settlement.

hopefully a letter for me soon and then i can throw some law speak about dis-propotionate penalties etc.

anyway thanks for keeping up to date with me guys this site is fantastic. keep up the slippery antics that you guys do so well.

Has he posted the letter, if not, take out the bit naming you as driver (they have that from you anyway), no need to join the dots for them.

[superted87]

too late. my dad sent it off today.

am i right in saying that the driver is the only one they can chase. i am pretty damn sure i am right.

when they respond i will then raise these points.


Inaudinate fine not related to the actual loss incurred.

i will ask if they will accept the cost of parking from the NCP across the road as a reasonable fine.

i will say that there is not a car park in wandsworth that has a 90 min limit so i was obviously not there. maybe i was in a 2hour car park at b&q.

which of the above , supported by examples of previous cases, will give me the best chance of them leaving me alone.

ted

[scam_buster]

too late. my dad sent it off today.

am i right in saying that the driver is the only one they can chase. i am pretty damn sure i am right.

when they respond i will then raise these points.


Inaudinate fine not related to the actual loss incurred.

i will ask if they will accept the cost of parking from the NCP across the road as a reasonable fine.

i will say that there is not a car park in wandsworth that has a 90 min limit so i was obviously not there. maybe i was in a 2hour car park at b&q.

which of the above , supported by examples of previous cases, will give me the best chance of them leaving me alone.

ted

The issue of their misstake about 90 minutes has no leg to stand on. They will ammend it in their claim form. Even if they put it wrongly in the claim form they can always apply to amend their statement of case.

I think you had a very good piece of advice about it being purely based on contract and your father enetered in no contract and has no obligation to assist them in any way.

You naming yourself and offering them a more reasonable charge - it is just an admission of liability.

Given this they probably have already enougph to successfully claim the full amount against you in country courts.

And by the way when county court claim is lodged and no reppply is received within 14 days (i.e. due to you being away in faulklands) then a default judgement is given.

They do not have a case against your father at all. He can ask thyem formally saying that he explained his position clearly, if they do not agree they should take him to the county court and that he asks that no debt collectors / other letters are sent as he will regard it as harassment.

If he (and you) did not give your adress then if they do send court summons in your name but to your father's adress he can return them to the court marked as "The adressee does not live here". It will be then up to them to obtain your adress and issue summons to the correct address.

Overall initially you had an almost 100% chance of getting away with it - but having provided details of the driver it is now considerably lower!

This post has been edited by scam_buster: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 - 10:47

[superted87]

well i pretty much shot myself in the foot with that one.

With the correct person having not been contacted for this i will have full rights to the reduced settlement period of 14 days will i not ???

Also i will attempt to contest on the grounds that because the £95 fine does not actually constitute reasonable recovery of their loss this is an illegal penalty and that i will only pay the equivalent parking charge for a local pay and display car park, for the 8 hours extra parking that i did. (e.g. NCP - £27)

Has anyone ever won against G24 based on this contest??

Has anyone ever beaten them on the grounds that the letter istrying to get money by posing as an official band of scary people and so is illegal ??

Do i have the right to 14 days reduced settlement when they contact me as this will be the first i have heard of the matter ??

Until they find me is this matter under "contest"???

My dad also recieved a final reminder fromt hem last week. It gives him until the 24th of March to pay the £95 or they will issue a "charge certificate". do they go to bailiffs before issuing a CCJ??


many thanks for all your help guys

[superted87]

p.s. - all i want is my dad to be left alone really. i need a watertight way for them to leave him alone. if they want to speak to me i will happily talk to them but they have no cause to talk to my old man.

[superted87]

right ,


i wrote to G24 telling them that they should pursue me and not my father. i recieved nothing after this......

now i have received a threat from CCS collection services saying that they will collect the money or give me a CCJ.

this is surely wrong. G24 did not even offer me the reduced 14 days. or chance to contest this. or anything indicating that i have a parking fine. so how do i defend myself??? as far as i know i have not got a parking ticket?? so how can they charge me for it??

advice please guys as i have 5 days to pay up.

[Teufel]

they are a debt collection agent - they have no additional powers

repeat the denial of liabilty to them

they cannot give you a CCJ only a court can do that and the claim would not stand
up if contested

misrepresenting their powers breask the OFT guidance on collecting debts
if they are licnesed then a complaint would be worth it
if not then it might satisfy you but would have little effect

[richiek]

Hi,

I also have an ongoing dispute with these muppets at G24. Every time I sent them a letter (after taking advice from legal Pete) telling them that I wasn't the driver and all the other stuff about contracts etc they just sent me back a letter telling me exactly the same thing - that my appeal had been unsuccessful - if you ever!

Now I have also just received a letter from CCS demanding the money or they will prepare the documents for court proceedings against me. The worst thing is they also try to use scary language as though they some sort of government body like the police or something. They actually put, we should also caution you that an unsatisfied county court judgement against you may be listed by the various credit reference bureaus. I mean who the hell do they think they are telling me that they are cautioning me? Surely this must be illegal in some way? Perhaps Teufel may have a view on this and what to do next!

[Teufel]

such scare tactics are outisde the oft guidlines, unlawful and possibly criminal

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/c...edit/oft664.pdf

[superted87]

that is the letter i got.

i rang CCS and told them that by law now i was disputing my debt with g24 that they had to suspend any action until further instructed to do so. They said they would procede as told by G24 no matter what i said. WHo the hell do they think they are. I am about to be deployed to the south atlantic. do they have to make allowances for late mail delivery and the fact that the moment i leave i will notify them of a change of address being my new address HMS Southampton, BFPO xxxx. see them knock on that door asking for cash!!!

I am sick of these bastards taking money from people. Got ticketed in North ealing because my ticket dropped into my vent. £10. winner. an actual representation of the debt incurred. paid up right away. polite, courteous and honest. Not like G24!!!

can someone tell me honestly. if i get a ccj can i ever get to a point where it is not on my record at all. ie settle the debt. kill everyone at G24 etc etc. or is it on me for life.

Also , do i get a chance to contest a ccj before it is ruled???

also , am i legally correct (seeing as i have never received the ticket only my father), that i can not pay them until i receive one. then when they do i have a fresh 14 days to pay the lesser fee?? then a fresh 14 days to pay the high fee.

[superted87]

well tomorrow is the date and i have received nothing from g24 or ccs so what shall i do. If they take me to county court i will have to delay my appearence because iw ill be deployed. i only have 9 days till i go so not enough time to make a case against them official.

what shall i do and can some legal beagle clarify my points above please??