Ms90 conviction unaware until yesterday can not get insurance Options

[Finnley]

I really need some advice so thought I would post this to see if I can get some clear concise help.
Sorry it is long winded. Thank you in advance


I was unaware that I had committed a speeding offense in September 22 until February 23 after receiving paperwork from the court requesting me to complete forms online and make a plea. I spoke with Cornwall Police and explain I had had no correspondence from them regarding this offence. They advised that I still needed to complete the court forms but to explain in the mitigating circumstances section that I had not received any letters. Police said they had sent paperwork in December last year and around this time we had a lot of postal strikes in our area and had a lot of issues with our post and deliveries. I recently June 23 received a notice of fine and collections order requesting a sum of £732 and 6 points on my license.
I am not denying that I was the driver as I was in that area September last year taking my son to university however, I was not given an opportunity to pay a small fine and driver awareness course that I have been told other people have had the opportunity to do. I was very stressed by the paperwork I received from the court in February as it said if I pleaded not guilty, I could be fined double the amount and thought I was pleading guilty to being the driver. I have now learnt that I am not guilty due to not receiving the correct paperwork prior to any court action.

I have spoken to Devon and Cornwall Central fine unit and I am cooperating fully and set up a payment plan to avoid further action against me in the interim. I am unable financially to pay this in full.

However until yesterday I was unaware that I have an ms90 conviction on my record which I was told by an insurance company was the reason I was being turned down for being insured on my mums car. I had one company quote me 3080 per year (car is only worth a little more than that) completely unaffordable. I emailed the court in June to have my case reopened but had no response after I was advised by a court advisor to email and request to change my plea. This is an absolute mess I can’t get affordable insurance which means I can not drive which is essential for my job so because of this have no current income.

If anyone can advise or share own experiences I would greatly appreciate it

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[southpaw82]

If you pleaded guilty then there’s very little you can do about it. Vacating a guilty plea is a difficult (almost impossible) thing to do.

[Finnley]

Thank you for your reply.
I even sought legal advice through my work and advised if I pleaded not guilty I could be in more trouble. Even the police agreed that I wasn’t at fault ‘not identifying the driver’ so advised to explain it all in mitigating circumstances.
I can not believe it is ok to put people in this position when I explained all of this to court. I don’t know what to do they might as well of disqualified me from driving as I can’t get insurance.
Surely it is my right to appeal?

[southpaw82]

Surely it is my right to appeal?

Yep. Section 108(1) of the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980

A person convicted by a magistrates’ court may appeal to the Crown Court—
(a) if he pleaded guilty, against his sentence;
(b) if he did not, against the conviction or sentence.

You can appeal against sentence. If the sentence for the offence you pleaded guilty to was within the guidelines there’s little point.

[Finnley]

Thanks again for reply.
In this case it wasn’t within guidelines as I never received the original documents regarding the speeding from police so I was none the wiser until 6 months after the offence. By that it had gone to far and the court became involved.
From what you’re saying it sounds like I have no hope to have this reviewed and stuck with this for 4 years and will struggle to get insurance in the first instance or one that is affordable.
I am a professional female in late my 30s with 20+ years driving and no claims and this could potentially ruin me.

I do appreciate your honesty though southpaw82

[andy_foster]

Arguably if the OP's "mitigation" amounted to a defence, the court should have rejected his guilty plea. However, the OP would appear to be way out of time to appeal, so this would appear to be academic.

[Finnley]

Thank you for your reply…
Unsure what you mean though by ‘so this appears to be academic’ would you mind clarifying?
Thanks

[Jlc]

Unsure what you mean though by ‘so this appears to be academic’ would you mind clarifying?

You had 15 business days to appeal. This seems to have expired anyway.

In this case it wasn’t within guidelines as I never received the original documents regarding the speeding from police

It's not that unusual. It's often because the V5C wasn't updated.

Not receiving the documents may not be a defence depending on the circumstances.

[The Rookie]

Thanks again for reply.
In this case it wasn’t within guidelines

If you plead guilty to the S172 offence then the sentence is within guidelines (and 6 points or a short ban the only outcome on your licence). I’m not sure what guidelines you dreamt up for your conclusion.
Had you posted here (or gone elsewhere) for advice before pleading you could instead have received a sentence for the speeding offence and had a lesser sentence. But the pleading was your choice and your decision I’m afraid.

[Finnley]

Unsure what you mean though by ‘so this appears to be academic’ would you mind clarifying?

You had 15 business days to appeal. This seems to have expired anyway.

In this case it wasn’t within guidelines as I never received the original documents regarding the speeding from police

It's not that unusual. It's often because the V5C wasn't updated.

Not receiving the documents may not be a defence depending on the circumstances.

The V5 document was up to date with the correct address as I confirmed this with police also. I didn’t receive any paperwork until I received the court notice 6 months after the speeding offence.

From the responses I am certain that I have no further options however thank you for your replies.

Thanks again for reply.
In this case it wasn’t within guidelines

If you plead guilty to the S172 offence then the sentence is within guidelines (and 6 points or a short ban the only outcome on your licence). I’m not sure what guidelines you dreamt up for your conclusion.
Had you posted here (or gone elsewhere) for advice before pleading you could instead have received a sentence for the speeding offence and had a lesser sentence. But the pleading was your choice and your decision I’m afraid.

I’m not sure what you mean by what I dreamt up as I mentioned in an earlier post I did seek advice, I spoke with police, legal advice through my work, court advisor and the company who dealt with the fines. I wasn’t aware of this site until now in June 23 within days of the court outcome I rang the courts for advice to appeal which I did the same day from the advice I was given.
Hindsight is a fine thing but not helpful in this case. I was reaching out to see if there is anymore I can do. Appears not but appreciate your reply

[Jlc]

The V5 document was up to date with the correct address as I confirmed this with police also. I didn’t receive any paperwork until I received the court notice 6 months after the speeding offence.

Post does go missing. But unfortunately the burden is on you* to show it didn't arrive (which is notoriously hard).

* assuming the Police can evidence that the notice entered the postal system with the correct address

[The Rookie]

I’m not sure what you mean by what I dreamt up as I mentioned in an earlier post I did seek advice, I spoke with police, legal advice through my work, court advisor and the company who dealt with the fines.

Which of those advised you to plead guilty to the S172, as neither the police or courts would (should) give any such advice so the only one can be the legal advice through work - the others came after sentencing so aren't relevant.

If you plead guilty to the S172, the sentence you got was 100% predictable and to the guidelines, so the guidance you 'dreamt up' would be any other result. I'm not sure how you expected not be to sentenced for the S172 if you plead guilty to that offence. Hopefully you didn't plead guilty to speeding as well or you could have 9 points!

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 - 11:59

[andy_foster]

The courts (random members of staff within the court) and police often give advice on legal matters. Often wrong and generally given by whatever random member of staff happens to have answered the phone.

When acting as a McKenzie friend some years ago, a court usher told us that the defendant had to give evidence. When I corrected her, she said that she had worked there for 6 years and would like to think that she knows how to do her job. She didn't like my reply that I would like to be able to think that as well.

[Manx_Tom]

... I was unaware that I had committed a speeding offense in September 22 until February 23 after receiving paperwork from the court requesting me to complete forms online and make a plea...

As others have said, it's a bit of an academic point now, but what were you actually charged with back in February? Was it two offences, one of speeding and the other of failure to identify the driver, or just the latter?

If you pleaded guilty to the failure to identify charge then that explains your MS90 conviction.

If you were simply advised by other people to plead guilty, that was bad advice. Neither the police nor non-legal court staff are quailifed to give legal advice and usually get it wrong when they do.

If this conviction will cause problems for you at work, and you received legal advice through your employer that advised you to plead guilty, you might want to consider complaining to whoever advised you and also point out to your employer that this has happened as a result of you being badly advised.

That won't assist in getting rid of the conviction but it might help your employer give you a bit of understanding. (Unless it was your employer who advised you... )

Out of curiosity, you aren't employed by the NHS as a community nurse or similar, are you?