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Change of demands by ticket office... Help!!!
El Duderino
post Mon, 29 Mar 2004 - 10:56
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Hi,
just found this site, maybe a bit late sad.gif

I got my NIP through, 67 in a 40... although I had doubts about the speed, the form states 'if correctly completed, a conditional offer of fixed penalty will be sent to you, for you to make payment of the penalty of £60 and forward your license for endorsement' and as i was speeding, i decided to send it back, signed.

This saturday, i get another letter stating that because the speed was so high, they would be taking me to court.

I now know that 67 is the guideline for court.

So i phone them up, explaining that all over the form it says you will get a fixed penalty and that, although i disputed the speed, i signed the form in good faith etc etc... got the expected repy... tough.

So, ok, I'm off to court by the looks of it! Ask for the type of device used, so i can check it out. Its a LASTECH, laser device, so i'm knackered there. Asked for the calibration cert of the device and was told i can only see this in court.

My questions are:
Is it true that i can only see the calibration certificate in court? Surely i can see this evidence prior to the court case?

and

Do i have an argument with the 'fixed penalty' part of the forms (she did admit that the forms were misleading and therefore in the process of being changed)

Any help gratefully received.

Cheers,
Chris
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post Mon, 29 Mar 2004 - 10:56
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Ker-ching
post Mon, 29 Mar 2004 - 11:02
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El duderino wrote:

QUOTE
Its a LASTECH, laser device, so i'm knackered there


Why? If it's a Lastech LTI 20-20 (known here as the "dodgyscope") you're in with a chance.

You must DEMAND (not request) the full video (if that's what it is), not just stills, from the device, and this must be provided at least 7 days before the court hearing so that you can have it evaluated by your own expert.

See other threads on this website about this, for example:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1211
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DW190
post Mon, 29 Mar 2004 - 11:17
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Chris wrote:

[quote]I got my NIP through, 67 in a 40... although I had doubts about the speed, the form states 'if correctly completed, a conditional offer of fixed penalty will be sent to you,

If you correctly completed the form the CC is in Breach of Contract as well.

Plead Not Guilty and demand the video.

Also Chris, have you any legal assistance insurance? Sometimes come with Contents insurance or attached to car insurance.

DW
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The Rookie
post Mon, 29 Mar 2004 - 11:25
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Call the boss of the scammers and the CC to explain the contents on the form, they will like as not crawl back into their hole!

Simon
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El Duderino
post Mon, 29 Mar 2004 - 11:36
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Thanks for your replies people,
I can get legal advice through the union, just seems like one rule for me and another for them.
I didnt know that it was a dodgy camera! Thought that laser technology was supposed to be good.
Anyone know about the calibration cert? Can I really not see it until i'm in court?

Cheers,
Chris
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cjm99
post Mon, 29 Mar 2004 - 11:44
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El dud

QUOTE
Anyone know about the calibration cert? Can I really not see it until i'm in court?  


I'm not sure on this. But this is the stock CPS answer, and when you as I'm sure you will demand the FUL video of the session.. You will be told this again.
All the indications are, that they will not proceed where full disclosure is sought ( they have much to hide). So if I were you, I would forget calibration cert. and focus soley on full video disclosure..
Chris


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Blackbird
post Mon, 29 Mar 2004 - 11:58
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El Dud

With Chris here. If you are having to go to court - IMO they will insist - then why not insist on your rights? Don't forget that you can plead not guilty right up to the trial - so it must be worth a go.

You said
QUOTE
Thought that laser technology was supposed to be good.


Yes it can be, but there can also be problems both with the technology and the operation. icon_wink.gif
As Chris said ignore the calibration certificate.

Best Regards


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El Duderino
post Mon, 29 Mar 2004 - 12:16
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Cheers for that fellas,

I'll go for the video then!

Be great if i got off the whole thing... money could go to charity instead of into the police pockets!

Chris
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cjm99
post Mon, 29 Mar 2004 - 12:29
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El dud

QUOTE
Posted: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:16:54 +0000    Post subject:  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Cheers for that fellas,  

I'll go for the video then!  

Be great if i got off the whole thing... money could go to charity instead of into the police pockets!  



WHEN you get off, or before, Join the naughty boyz & girlz. It's only £30


Chris


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dave99
post Mon, 29 Mar 2004 - 12:46
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I have been sent the laser calibration stuff twice by the cps without even requesting it! I think they have to send you this stuff as part of their obligations under disclosure rules? (they have to disclose by law anything which they think may undermine the prosecutions case, even if not used in the prosecution case)
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jeffreyarcher
post Tue, 30 Mar 2004 - 01:10
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QUOTE (El Duderino)
'if correctly completed, a conditional offer of fixed penalty will be sent to you, for you to make payment of the penalty of £60 and forward your license for endorsement'
<...>
This saturday, i get another letter stating that because the speed was so high, they would be taking me to court.
<...>
Do i have an argument with the 'fixed penalty' part of the forms (she did admit that the forms were misleading and therefore in the process of being changed)

Looks like 'improper coercion' to me.
Brown v Stott (Procurator Fiscal, Dunfermline) & Anor [2000] ICHRL 91 (5 December 2000)
QUOTE (Lord Bingham)
4.  There is in the present case no suggestion of improper coercion <...>

QUOTE (Lord Hope of Craighead)
1.  Further, the means employed are proportionate to the aim because <...> all other protections preventing the admissibility of <...> evidence obtained by <...> other improper means remain in place.
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