PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Fixed Penalty Offer - Use a handheld mobile phone
simonp820
post Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 14:29
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Member No.: 30,589



HGV driver with clean licence for 30+ years. Got 3pts 2.5yrs ago for doing 70 in my car on the M25 when apparently there was a variable speed limit in place of 50. I couldn't challenge this so accepted the points.

Unfortunately I got stopped last week for using my phone in the car. I fully accept responsibility for this. I wasn't aware that it's an offence to even touch your phone now but even so I accept I was wrong.

I've been offered a fixed penalty of 6pts which now brings me to 9. My employer won't allow anyone with more then 6pts (insurance reasons apparently) so I'm likely to lose my driving job of 11 years sad.gif

I fully accept I've done wrong but the 'punishment' here of losing my livelihood seems unfair. I'm sure many will disagree but I'd appreciate any advice of what I can do. Might it be better going to Court? Is there any leniency? Could I end up worse off?!

Please be nice people. I'm genuinely sorry for a stupid mistake but I'm already struggling to keep a roof over my head and losing my job will be the final straw sad.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 14:29
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 14:40
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 52,575
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (simonp820 @ Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 15:29) *
I wasn't aware that it's an offence to even touch your phone now

Perhaps you weren’t aware that it ‘is’ because it’s actually ‘not’?

Perhaps tell us the exact circumstances so we can give better advice.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
simonp820
post Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 15:50
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Member No.: 30,589



Ah interesting. That's what the Policeman said. I've since read up on this which seems to say the same:

https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law

I was looking at an email whilst driving. No excuses. I freely admitted this to the Policeman when I got stopped. I'm not a good liar!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
andy_foster
post Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 16:11
Post #4


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 22,702
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



Were you holding the phone, or was it in a cradle?


--------------------
Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
simonp820
post Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 16:28
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Member No.: 30,589



QUOTE (andy_foster @ Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 17:11) *
Were you holding the phone, or was it in a cradle?


I was holding it sad.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 16:29
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 52,575
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



EDIT - overlapping post deleted.

OK, so you do seem to be guilty then, and pre the recent change in the law would still have been guilty against the Police/CPS/Government (incorrect) advice anyway.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 16:32


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 21:56
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 32,755
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



If a fixed penalty is on offer that is likely to be the cheapest way out.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are. If I represent you at a hearing and you want to send me a donation that is fine, but this is not required and would be purely voluntary. I do not charge any fees.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
simonp820
post Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 07:46
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Member No.: 30,589



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 22:56) *
If a fixed penalty is on offer that is likely to be the cheapest way out.


Cheaper than losing my job? sad.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 08:04
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 52,575
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Cheaper than taking it to court, you loose your job either way (I assume you have a points limit?).

Not loosing your job was up to you to achieve unfortunately. What you did has been illegal for a long time (since 2006 AIR) so shouldn't really come as a surprise to you?

That said, the (very very) slim chance they mess it up and you escape prosecution for some reason is possibly worth considering as long as you understand you'll be an extra £300-400 out of pocket on the gamble (even more if you plead not guilty if they do start action and they then fail to make a mess up for you).


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AntonyMMM
post Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 08:06
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,476
Joined: 17 May 2010
Member No.: 37,614



The penalty is "fixed" at 6pts...... unless you have a defence and could achieve a not guilty verdict, you won't get less than that, sorry.

By your own admission, such a potential defence doesn't seem likely.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peodude
post Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 08:14
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 821
Joined: 8 Aug 2006
Member No.: 7,035



One possible option is to ignore the FPN, and let them take the matter to court, this will buy you some more time, given that your 3 points are 2 1/2 years old and will expire for totting purposes in 6 months, if you can drag it out long enough. As pointed out, this will increase the fine you will receive, but over losing your job is probably preferable.

What date was your first 3 points?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 08:24
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,598
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (peodude @ Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 09:14) *
...given that your 3 points are 2 1/2 years old and will expire for totting purposes in 6 months, if you can drag it out long enough.

Given that the date of offence is used, 'dragging it out' doesn't work.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BertB
post Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 08:48
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 357
Joined: 14 Nov 2011
Member No.: 51,087



I guess the point being made was that if in 6 months the existing 3 points are no longer 'active', from his employers point of view he would only have 6 live points on his licence from the date of conviction.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
thisisntme
post Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 09:39
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 663
Joined: 11 May 2014
Member No.: 70,566



QUOTE (BertB @ Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 09:48) *
I guess the point being made was that if in 6 months the existing 3 points are no longer 'active', from his employers point of view he would only have 6 live points on his licence from the date of conviction.


Don't insurers ask for 5 years history though? It might slip the net for the employers, but probably not their insurers.

That being said, it could take well over 6 months to get to court, and 6 x earnings will be more than the cost of taking it to court.

This post has been edited by thisisntme: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 09:40


--------------------
I reserve the right to be wrong.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 09:50
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,598
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (BertB @ Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 09:48) *
I guess the point being made was that if in 6 months the existing 3 points are no longer 'active', from his employers point of view he would only have 6 live points on his licence from the date of conviction.

Fair point but totting was mentioned. But such points stay on the licence for 4 years. Depends on the employer's (or their insurers) definition of 'live' points.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 09:51


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 10:24
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 32,755
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (simonp820 @ Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 08:46) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 22:56) *
If a fixed penalty is on offer that is likely to be the cheapest way out.


Cheaper than losing my job? sad.gif

How many points do you have now?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are. If I represent you at a hearing and you want to send me a donation that is fine, but this is not required and would be purely voluntary. I do not charge any fees.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Rallyman72
post Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 10:32
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,432
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
From: No longer on a train
Member No.: 3,385



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 11:24) *
QUOTE (simonp820 @ Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 08:46) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 22:56) *
If a fixed penalty is on offer that is likely to be the cheapest way out.


Cheaper than losing my job? sad.gif

How many points do you have now?

OP said in the first post that the 6 points for this takes him to 9 so has 3 already.


--------------------
The accident was caused by cockpit thrombosis - a dangerous clot between seatback and steering wheel ...

1. Read this first
2. Nip Wizard
Parking tickets - council - 0, Rallyman - 1
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
simonp820
post Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 11:42
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Member No.: 30,589



Thanks everyone - lots of useful comments.

My issue is really the points and 9 points leading to losing my job. I was wondering if I went to Court I could be offered a different punishment than getting 6 points ie community service, larger fine, etc. Even going inside for a couple of weeks would be more advantageous! (the latter is a joke!)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 11:50
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,598
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



If convicted then the endorsement is mandatory. You can't trade points for other punishments unfortunately.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 11:55
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 52,575
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (simonp820 @ Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 12:42) *
I was wondering if I went to Court I could be offered a different punishment than getting 6 points

Simply put, no. I mean that would subvert the whole intent of the points system (which is to have a meaningful and severe punishment for repeat offenders as obviously the fine isn't enough to stop their repeated bad driving). There are some options to avoid points, (such as special reason not to endorse) but none apply here, in theory a short ban is possible but for a single offence isn't going to happen in your case, especially solely to help you avoid points for the above mentioned reason.

Like I said, about the only thing I can suggest is not accepting the FP and hoping they make a mess of it, probably only a 1 in 1000 chance, but that's about the best odds I see happening.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Saturday, 13th August 2022 - 11:36
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.