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E Scooter SEIZED unfairly!
jetmin
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 07:56
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Hi
I was walking into my building with my E scooter and a police van turned up and stopped me. They told me they had seen me riding it on my road just before and it was illegal as I’m uninsured on it (even though it’s impossible to get insurance on an e scooter!!) and that they would seize my scooter. They would take it to a police pound over an hour away from me. I would have to pay to get it released and then also I would have to pay a penalty I would get through the post as well!!

I will probably end up having to pay more than the scooter is worth just to get it back!! This is completely unreasonable and believe seizing it was very unfair. They didn’t even circle on the form which police pound I have to go to. And there are 2 options. Both an hour away. And both have recorded info lines and can’t even call to check which one is at. I am very frustrated to say the least, and want to fight back!!! Please let me know if there is anything I can do???

Pics below:

https://ibb.co/7KKn5vF
https://ibb.co/YpM4GzT

This post has been edited by jetmin: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 08:05
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post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 07:56
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666
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 08:04
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Were you riding on the road? Was it insured?
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baggins1234
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 08:17
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You may struggle to get it back.

To recover a vehicle under S165 RTA it is the norm to have to have proof of insurance before it is released.

You will have to hunt around to find a company willing to insure it.

QUOTE (666 @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:04) *
Were you riding on the road? Was it insured?


Unless it’s one as part of the Governments scheme, it’s very doubtful that it will have been insured.

Likewise it won’t have a VRM etc etc
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AntonyMMM
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 08:17
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And the £300 & 6 points fixed penalty ....assuming they proceed with the no insurance offence
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jetmin
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 08:21
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It’s an electric scooter… the same as is legal to use on ride share apps like Uber / bolt / lime. But apparently police say it’s illegal to ride one that you own privately, as you are not allowed to get insurance on them, which makes 0 sense!!!

Companies can get insurance to sell scooters for rental, but I am not allowed to get insurance on my scooter, and it gets taken off me and seized if I use it!! There must be something we can do to fight this, or sue the police / government for this… they classify it as a motorised vehicle when it’s clearly not the same thing!!

QUOTE (AntonyMMM @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:17) *
And the £300 & 6 points fixed penalty ....assuming they proceed with the no insurance offence


Are you serious???? There is no way I am accepting that. That’s so unfair. What are my options, I refuse to pay / accept 6 points if that is penalty I get
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Starworshipper12
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 08:27
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And you’re still using it after this happened?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=139203&hl=
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Jlc
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 08:39
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QUOTE (jetmin @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:21) *
What are my options, I refuse to pay / accept 6 points if that is penalty I get

If you are offered a conditional fixed penalty to dispose of the matter without a prosecution then refusing to comply with result in a prosecution...

Unless you have a defence that could be unwise.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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jetmin
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 08:45
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QUOTE (Starworshipper12 @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:27) *
And you’re still using it after this happened?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=139203&hl=


Yes. I continue to use an electric scooter as it’s the best way for me to commute. The fact that the law is outdated and categorises electric scooters as a powered transporter yet punishes it as a motorised vehicle is ludicrous. I believe in electric scooters as many other countries do and refuse to be intimated by a stupid government enforcing stupid laws that make no sense. Not even sure how it’s legal to punish me with motorised vehicle laws when it’s clearly not a motorised vehicle and is a “powered transporter”. Just because they are too slow / stupid to make proper laws why should 10s of thousands of commuters who commute for work pay the penalties for the governments inadequacy??

When people post parking penalties and speeding penalties the purpose of this forum is to help them get out of it, not judge and make comments like “why did you park in the wrong place?”. So if you don’t have a helpful response please don’t reply on this thread any further. Thankyou

QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:39) *
QUOTE (jetmin @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:21) *
What are my options, I refuse to pay / accept 6 points if that is penalty I get

If you are offered a conditional fixed penalty to dispose of the matter without a prosecution then refusing to comply with result in a prosecution...

Unless you have a defence that could be unwise.


My defence is that an electric scooter is not a motorised vehicle, nor is it categorised as one, so why should it be punished as one. People can ride electric bikes with no problem. They can ride electric scooters if it’s a ride share scheme. Yet if you ride an electric scooter you own it’s all of a sudden illegal and punished the same as driving an uninsured car on a motorway! Surely must be a way to fight this.
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Jlc
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 08:48
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QUOTE (jetmin @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:45) *
When people post parking penalties and speeding penalties the purpose of this forum is to help them get out of it

My defence is that an electric scooter is not a motorised vehicle, nor is it categorised as one, so why should it be punished as one.

Yes, 'getting out of it' within the confines of the law - which you seem aware that you cannot currently ride private e-scooters in public places.

QUOTE (jetmin @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:45) *
People can ride electric bikes with no problem. They can ride electric scooters if it’s a ride share scheme.

Indeed, which are allowed within the law.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 08:50


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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southpaw82
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 08:49
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It does seem that you don’t accept what the law is (rather than what you would wish it to be). The issue is that the law will be applied as it is. If you accumulate 12 points then you will normally be disqualified from driving. If you ride your e scooter after that then you’re at risk of breaching that order and being sent to prison. However unfair you might think the law is, going to prison over an e scooter sounds particularly silly.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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peodude
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 08:51
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QUOTE (jetmin @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:21) *
Are you serious???? There is no way I am accepting that. That’s so unfair. What are my options, I refuse to pay / accept 6 points if that is penalty I get


Your only other option than accepting a FPN is going to court and losing, it's been all over the news that police are clamping down on escooters. It is classed as a motorised vehicle because, well, it is a vehicle and it has a motor. The only exeptions are wheelchairs/mobiity scooters and ebikes, which are only pedal assisted.

Rental ones are a trial scheme and the companies that provide them supply the insurance for them.

This is why you require insurance, 3 year old suffered life changing injuries after escooter crash. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57908240

The law may be outdated, and is currently being reviewed, but as it currently stands, is illegal, just because it is the best way for you to commute doesn't change that.
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baggins1234
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 08:51
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QUOTE (jetmin @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:40) *
QUOTE (Starworshipper12 @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:27) *
And you’re still using it after this happened?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=139203&hl=


Yes. I continue to use an electric scooter as it’s the best way for me to commute. The fact that the law is outdated and categorises electric scooters as a powered transporter yet punishes it as a motorised vehicle is ludicrous. I believe in electric scooters as many other countries do and refuse to be intimated by a stupid government enforcing stupid laws that make no sense. Not even sure how it’s legal to punish me with motorised vehicle laws when it’s clearly not a motorised vehicle and is a “powered transporter”. Just because they are too slow / stupid to make proper laws why should 10s of thousands of commuters who commute for work pay the penalties for the governments inadequacy??

When people post parking penalties and speeding penalties the purpose of this forum is to help them get out of it, not judge and make comments like “why did you park in the wrong place?”. So if you don’t have a helpful response please don’t reply on this thread any further. Thankyou


Ok so I’m an anonymous bloke on the internet… yeah the government and the feds are all out to get you so I advise you to fight this all the way… solidarity bro!

Hang on…that’s actually bad advice… but I’m helping you to “get out of this” and when it’s all gone wrong… who do you turn to?

The good advice is pick the battles you stand a 51% chance or more of winning. This one… you won’t…. The Met already have you on record as committing a previous offence in the scooter so you presumably know it’s wrong.

Good luck, you need it.

In case you’re under any illusions or delusions … if you get 12 or more points on your licence, you will probably be disqualified. If you drive or indeed use a non Government scheme e scooter and get caught whilst disqualified, you can be sent to prison.



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jetmin
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:05
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:48) *
QUOTE (jetmin @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:45) *
When people post parking penalties and speeding penalties the purpose of this forum is to help them get out of it

My defence is that an electric scooter is not a motorised vehicle, nor is it categorised as one, so why should it be punished as one.

Yes, 'getting out of it' within the confines of the law - which you seem aware that you cannot currently ride private e-scooters in public places.

QUOTE (jetmin @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:45) *
People can ride electric bikes with no problem. They can ride electric scooters if it’s a ride share scheme.

Indeed, which are allowed within the law.


People are also aware they can't speed, which is far more dangerous, and yet this forums tries to help them "get out of it within the confines of the law" - all i'm asking is if there are avenues or potential options to fight this, or maybe fight the penalty when that comes through the post?
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mickR
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:06
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QUOTE (Starworshipper12 @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:27) *
And you’re still using it after this happened?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=139203&hl=


Really!! Well i would suggest the OP realises continued use of said scooter (if he gets it back) is not a good idea.
I hope the OP does well in trying to get the law changed by his stupidity determination and that he has lots and lots of money or is very good at holding slippery soap.
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jetmin
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:07
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QUOTE (peodude @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:51) *
QUOTE (jetmin @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:21) *
Are you serious???? There is no way I am accepting that. That’s so unfair. What are my options, I refuse to pay / accept 6 points if that is penalty I get


Your only other option than accepting a FPN is going to court and losing, it's been all over the news that police are clamping down on escooters. It is classed as a motorised vehicle because, well, it is a vehicle and it has a motor. The only exeptions are wheelchairs/mobiity scooters and ebikes, which are only pedal assisted.

Rental ones are a trial scheme and the companies that provide them supply the insurance for them.

This is why you require insurance, 3 year old suffered life changing injuries after escooter crash. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57908240

The law may be outdated, and is currently being reviewed, but as it currently stands, is illegal, just because it is the best way for you to commute doesn't change that.


And will the penalty be 6 points 100%? Or there is a chance will be 3 points or no points or something different?
If it is 6 points, is there a way i can fight the penalty?
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baggins1234
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:15
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https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-insurance/drivin...thout-insurance
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jetmin
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:19
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It says "could give you 6 penalty points" - so do they sometimes give less or no penalty points at all?
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Jlc
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:19
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QUOTE (jetmin @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 10:07) *
And will the penalty be 6 points 100%? Or there is a chance will be 3 points or no points or something different?
If it is 6 points, is there a way i can fight the penalty?

'No insurance' is marked on the seizure document. You'll have to wait and see what they do next - they can go straight to prosecution should they wish.

No insurance is a minimum of 6 points (if convicted). In terms of defence you'll have have to show it was insured, or show it didn't need insurance - although it hasn't been established what evidence they have of it been used. Clearly you can't do the former and the latter would seem to be a losing battle with the current legislation.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:29


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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thisisntme
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:20
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QUOTE (jetmin @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:05) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:48) *
QUOTE (jetmin @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:45) *
When people post parking penalties and speeding penalties the purpose of this forum is to help them get out of it

My defence is that an electric scooter is not a motorised vehicle, nor is it categorised as one, so why should it be punished as one.

Yes, 'getting out of it' within the confines of the law - which you seem aware that you cannot currently ride private e-scooters in public places.

QUOTE (jetmin @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:45) *
People can ride electric bikes with no problem. They can ride electric scooters if it’s a ride share scheme.

Indeed, which are allowed within the law.


People are also aware they can't speed, which is far more dangerous, and yet this forums tries to help them "get out of it within the confines of the law" - all i'm asking is if there are avenues or potential options to fight this, or maybe fight the penalty when that comes through the post?



You didn't read pf the case of the child severely injured by someone on a similar scooter? Hence why the only scheme is the official one. Personally I would bin them all, as where I have seen them used here and elsewhere is they end up being a form of litter as people just dump them, and are frequently ridden like they could never possibly injure anyone without a care in the world.


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mickR
post Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 09:21
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QUOTE (jetmin @ Wed, 21 Jul 2021 - 10:05) *
People are also aware they can't speed, which is far more dangerous, and yet this forums tries to help them "get out of it within the confines of the law" - all i'm asking is if there are avenues or potential options to fight this, or maybe fight the penalty when that comes through the post?


The short answer i would suggest is ... no. See southpaws post. (A lawyer)
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