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Bank Park Management - Failure to claim free parking session
phoni
post Mon, 18 Jan 2021 - 00:57
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My first post!

Summary:

Private car park (Bank Park Management, letter received 5 Jan)

Incident occurred on 20 Dec 2020
Notice is dated 5 Jan 2021

Same car park had free parking for an hour until a couple of months ago, then it changed to free parking for 30 min (and have to enter car registration into machine and display a ticket)

The driver parked for 35 min and did not print the ticket as the driver didn't realise the rules for the car park have changed.

I have also found Google StreetView image from Oct 2020 which corresponds to previous 1h restriction without parking ticket machine or the new signs.

There is a close up of the old parking sign (1h free) on Google StreetView but that's a bit older: Oct 2018

I understand that 35 min is within tolerance of 30 min limit. So the issue is whether not printing a ticket is sufficient to be required to pay.

And whether recent (after Oct 2020) change in rules for this specific car park would play a role and is worth mentioning.

Many thanks!

4 pages of the letter and car park sign are below.







This post has been edited by phoni: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 - 11:30
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post Mon, 18 Jan 2021 - 00:57
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Sheffield Dave
post Mon, 18 Jan 2021 - 08:59
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First off, edit your first post to avoid hinting at the identity of the driver and/or their relationship to you, the keeper. The driver parked on the day and has no further involvement. You, the keeper are now dealing with this matter. Only ever refer to the driver as "the driver". For example: "the driver parked for 35 min... later I received a NtK.".

Second, what was the date of the incident and the date of issue on the NtK?
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phoni
post Mon, 18 Jan 2021 - 10:52
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QUOTE (Sheffield Dave @ Mon, 18 Jan 2021 - 08:59) *
First off, edit your first post to avoid hinting at the identity of the driver and/or their relationship to you, the keeper. The driver parked on the day and has no further involvement. You, the keeper are now dealing with this matter. Only ever refer to the driver as "the driver". For example: "the driver parked for 35 min... later I received a NtK.".

Second, what was the date of the incident and the date of issue on the NtK?

Thanks, I have updated the original post. Parked on 20 Dec, notice received 5 Jan.
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ostell
post Mon, 18 Jan 2021 - 11:09
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What are the dates on the actual notice? Makes life easier if they have shot themselves in the foot

In the meantime:

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper No. xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. Additionally you failed to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act and failed to give required statement from 9 (2) (b) about driver liability.

You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc




First class post with a free certificate of posting from a post office

This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 - 12:09
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phoni
post Mon, 18 Jan 2021 - 11:39
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QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 18 Jan 2021 - 11:09) *
What are the dates on the actual notice? Makes life easier if they have shot themselves in the foot

In the meantime:

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper No. xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. Additionally you have failed to give required statement from 9 (2) (b) about driver liability.

You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc


If the dates allow it then you can also add in the bones from:

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

First class post with a free certificate of posting from a post office


Perfect! Thanks! Just to confirm, the notice was dated 5 Jan, not received 5 Jan: I cannot remember when it was exactly received.

There are definitely more than 14 days between 20th and 5th, maybe Christmas delayed it.

Just a follow up question: if £60 is paid now, would they refund it? Or is it best to ignore (ie risk of it becoming £100 is low)?
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ostell
post Mon, 18 Jan 2021 - 12:12
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I have modified the appeal. If they posted on the 5th then it is assumed to be delivered 2 working days later, on the 7th, so definitely outside 14 days.

If you pay it will not be refunded, don't even think about doing that. It could be taken to be admitting liability.

They will reject and offer an appeal to the the IAS. Don't even bother, it will be rejected. Just wait to see if they take it further.
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phoni
post Mon, 1 Feb 2021 - 12:07
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QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 18 Jan 2021 - 12:12) *
I have modified the appeal. If they posted on the 5th then it is assumed to be delivered 2 working days later, on the 7th, so definitely outside 14 days.

If you pay it will not be refunded, don't even think about doing that. It could be taken to be admitting liability.

They will reject and offer an appeal to the the IAS. Don't even bother, it will be rejected. Just wait to see if they take it further.

Thanks! It worked! I've received a letter today confirming PCN and data stored on their system have been cancelled.
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Jlc
post Mon, 1 Feb 2021 - 13:06
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Gosh. This is unusual.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Mon, 1 Feb 2021 - 14:45
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Store that letter in a safe place for 6 years

A sensible company giving in when they know they have lost.
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Jlc
post Mon, 1 Feb 2021 - 16:17
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QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 1 Feb 2021 - 14:45) *
Store that letter in a safe place for 6 years

A sensible company giving in when they know they have lost.

Yes, but they usually pursue the keeper on the basis they were driving...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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