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Single Justice Procedure Notice
JB10
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 13:08
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I received my SJPN dated 5/11. Doing 89mph on the motorway. I know it's a band A fine and 3 points usually, but I have these issues.

My charge is for 89mph in a 70mph zone (motorway). It says Birmingham but it's more Walsall/Wolverhampton (if it makes a difference).
Officers Traffic Incident Form says I was doing average of 89mph for 0.7 miles.
This wasn't signed or given to me (22/6).
Officers witness statement says I was on a temporary 60mph section, and undertook them while they were doing 70mph.

I am not disputing going over 70mph, however not all of the journey was in the temporary section (M6 J10-10a).


What would be the best course of action? I have 3 points on my licence, SP50 offence date 1/9/19.


Thank you in advance.
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post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 13:08
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666
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 13:28
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You admit speeding. Whether you were doing 89 or 71 makes no difference, the guideline is the same, so a guilty plea seems the best course.

Were you offered and refused a fixed penalty?
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AntonyMMM
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 13:30
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89 in a 70 should have been an offer of an FPN (£100 + 3pts) ..... are you sure the offence alleged isn't 89 in a 60 ?

None of the other stuff is any sort of defence for you

This post has been edited by AntonyMMM: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 13:31
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BertB
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 13:38
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From the officers statement, you are being prosecuted for exceeding a temporary limit of 60mph (89mph) which is in band B territory, 4-6 points.
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666
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 14:10
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QUOTE (BertB @ Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 13:38) *
From the officers statement, you are being prosecuted for exceeding a temporary limit of 60mph (89mph) which is in band B territory, 4-6 points.

That makes more sense. But still no obvious defence.
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Jlc
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 14:49
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QUOTE (JB10 @ Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 13:08) *
My charge is for 89mph in a 70mph zone (motorway). It says Birmingham but it's more Walsall/Wolverhampton (if it makes a difference).

You were stopped at the time - you know where it happened and have not been disadvantaged by this 'error'.

QUOTE (JB10 @ Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 13:08) *
This wasn't signed or given to me (22/6).

Doesn't need to be. I presume when you were stopped you were made aware of the alleged offence and that they were going to take it further? (a 'verbal NIP')

QUOTE (JB10 @ Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 13:08) *
Officers witness statement says I was on a temporary 60mph section, and undertook them while they were doing 70mph.

Well it was either 60 or 70 - as above, it makes a difference to the sentencing.

If you undertook them then you are possibly lucky to be facing a speeding charge only? (Driving without due care and attention springs to mind)

QUOTE (JB10 @ Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 13:08) *
I am not disputing going over 70mph, however not all of the journey was in the temporary section (M6 J10-10a).

The key is where they did the measurement - the statement implies the 60.

QUOTE (JB10 @ Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 13:08) *
What would be the best course of action? I have 3 points on my licence, SP50 offence date 1/9/19.

You don't appear to have a defence? The only topic of conversation is whether it was a 60 or 70...

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 14:53


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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JB10
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 15:48
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I'm not trying to get out of this, my issue is the 60 or 70mph. The charge states 89 in a 70mph, nothing about temp 60mph. If I just plead guilty to the charge will it just be 3pts and fine?

This post has been edited by JB10: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 15:49
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666
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 16:17
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QUOTE (JB10 @ Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 15:48) *
I'm not trying to get out of this, my issue is the 60 or 70mph. The charge states 89 in a 70mph, nothing about temp 60mph. If I just plead guilty to the charge will it just be 3pts and fine?

Plus prosecution costs (c.£85) and victim surcharge (10% of fine, minimum c.£34).
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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 16:18
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QUOTE (JB10 @ Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 15:48) *
I'm not trying to get out of this, my issue is the 60 or 70mph. The charge states 89 in a 70mph, nothing about temp 60mph.

Well if the charge is exceeding 70 then your issue with 60 or 70 does not look like an issue at all.

Where you offered a fixed penalty notice at any point? You'd normally get an offer for 89 in a 70.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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JB10
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 16:44
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No I wasn't offered one, I'm assuming they thought I would be charged with doing 89 in the 60. I'd snap their hand off for 3 points and whatever fine comes with it!
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Jlc
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 17:12
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In that case you have nothing to lose in asking to be sentenced at fixed penalty rate. They don't have to but probably won't unless nudged...

Point out that the you should not be disadvantaged by not having the opportunity of a fixed penalty:

QUOTE
where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence
itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point
should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be
imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in
these circumstances.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 22:14
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 17:12) *
In that case you have nothing to lose in asking to be sentenced at fixed penalty rate. They don't have to but probably won't unless nudged...

Point out that the you should not be disadvantaged by not having the opportunity of a fixed penalty:

QUOTE
where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence
itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point
should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be
imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in
these circumstances.


+1, this is what I was thinking.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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JB10
post Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 23:49
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 17:12) *
In that case you have nothing to lose in asking to be sentenced at fixed penalty rate. They don't have to but probably won't unless nudged...

Point out that the you should not be disadvantaged by not having the opportunity of a fixed penalty:

QUOTE
where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence
itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point
should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be
imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in
these circumstances.



Thank you very much for your help.
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andy_foster
post Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 18:40
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If the allegation is that you were doing 80 in a 60 while undertaking them while they were doing 70, but the actual charge is that you were doing 89 in a 70, I would be minded to plead guilty and not do anything to cause anyone to look too closely at anything other than the charge.


--------------------
Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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cp8759
post Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 19:24
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 18:40) *
If the allegation is that you were doing 80 in a 60 while undertaking them while they were doing 70, but the actual charge is that you were doing 89 in a 70, I would be minded to plead guilty and not do anything to cause anyone to look too closely at anything other than the charge.

But the OP is pleading guilty anyway? Nothing wrong with making submissions about sentencing, the worse that could happen is that they decline to sentence at the FPN level.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 19:38
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I agree, the Single Justice isn’t going to look at any more than the statement of facts and the request for the FP level of tariff.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
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andy_foster
post Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 20:54
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 19:38) *
I agree, the Single Justice isn’t going to look at any more than the statement of facts and the request for the FP level of tariff.


Your ability to agree with things I never said still surprises me.


--------------------
Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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NewJudge
post Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 22:04
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 20:54) *
Your ability to agree with things I never said still surprises me.


You two are not married, are you? biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
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The Rookie
post Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 22:57
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 20:54) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 19:38) *
I agree, the Single Justice isn’t going to look at any more than the statement of facts and the request for the FP level of tariff.


Your ability to agree with things I never said still surprises me.

It’s alright I wasn’t agreeing with anything you ‘never said’, what I was agreeing with was what CP wrote (the post directly above mine after all) and not you.... do you need help untwisting them now?

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 23:03


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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JB10
post Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 10:30
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 19:24) *
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 18:40) *
If the allegation is that you were doing 80 in a 60 while undertaking them while they were doing 70, but the actual charge is that you were doing 89 in a 70, I would be minded to plead guilty and not do anything to cause anyone to look too closely at anything other than the charge.

But the OP is pleading guilty anyway? Nothing wrong with making submissions about sentencing, the worse that could happen is that they decline to sentence at the FPN level.



Thanks, I submitted this morning online asking for the fixed penalty. Any idea how long it takes to process?
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