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59 in a 60
Dogeat
post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 16:47
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Hi,
Been send a NIP it was a camera van thats got me. Was doing 59 in a 60 but was driving a van (light goods vehicle) so they are saying that I should be doing 50 the same a heavy goods vehicle..

Now my V5 clearly states Im a Light goods vehicle not a heavy goods vehicle, was not aware till now that a van was now classed as a heavy goods other than the motorway.

The NIP does not state what speed the exceed speed was just states 5/18/20/30/40/50/60 mph all most as its not filled out correctly is this normal?

How can my V5 state light goods vehicle yet I'm to follow the rules of a heavy goods vehicle. I don't hold a Heavy goods licence so how do I follow the rules of a licence that I don't hold?

Has anybody had this before?
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post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 16:47
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Jlc
post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 16:50
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What was the road? Single carriageway?


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Dogeat
post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 16:56
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Yes, Single carriageway. It had a crawling lane on my side and I was overtaking a lorry at the time. It was the A66 at Troutbeck
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southpaw82
post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 16:56
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QUOTE (Dogeat @ Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 17:47) *
How can my V5 state light goods vehicle yet I'm to follow the rules of a heavy goods vehicle. I don't hold a Heavy goods licence so how do I follow the rules of a licence that I don't hold?

You don’t, you follow the speed limits for the class of vehicle you’re driving, as set out in Schedule 6 to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, for example

QUOTE
(1) A goods vehicle having a maximum laden weight not exceeding 7·5 tonnes and which is not—(a) an articulated vehicle, or (b) drawing a trailer, or © a car-derived van - 70/60/50


Nothing to do with the classification given by the DVLA or the licence you hold (the speed limit not being a condition of a driving licence anyway).


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Jlc
post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 17:01
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QUOTE (Dogeat @ Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 17:56) *
Yes, Single carriageway. It had a crawling lane on my side and I was overtaking a lorry at the time. It was the A66 at Troutbeck

Ok, then 50mph applies for goods vehicles less than 7.5t (unless it was a car derived van).


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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oldstoat
post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 18:14
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must be honest. have sympathy, for the OP. The speed limits are a complete buggers muddle. The fact that we can have to refer to legislation, to support the fact that the poor OP is wrong, makes me wonder. Should it be clearer in the Highway Code, or better tested in the Test. Or even better. Sort the bloody legislation out. For example. I have looked at SouthPaws link. i am still confused

This post has been edited by oldstoat: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 18:27


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The Rookie
post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 18:15
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It is clear in the Highway Code IMO.
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits


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TryOut
post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 19:04
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As others have said, the speed limits are very clear, including those for vans.
It is apparent that many drivers of vans, including the OP, don't bother to check what the speed limit is for the van.
Nothing wrong with the way they are defined or published...as long as you check.
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oldstoat
post Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 07:16
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 19:15) *
It is clear in the Highway Code IMO.
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits



This is not clear. note the weasel word may.

It also adds a further hyperlink to follow the bit in quotes to make a definition

Vehicles under 2 tonnes laden (loaded) weight may qualify as a '‘car-derived van’ or ‘dual-purpose vehicle’' These vehicles have the same speed limits as cars.

This post has been edited by oldstoat: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 07:17


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666
post Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 07:50
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QUOTE (oldstoat @ Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 08:16) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 19:15) *
It is clear in the Highway Code IMO.
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits



This is not clear. note the weasel word may.

It also adds a further hyperlink to follow the bit in quotes to make a definition

Vehicles under 2 tonnes laden (loaded) weight may qualify as a '‘car-derived van’ or ‘dual-purpose vehicle’' These vehicles have the same speed limits as cars.

But that link is not the Highway Code, which is clear https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-cod...ders-103-to-158 (Rule 123). The OP was in no doubt that he was driving a goods vehicle. There are no ifs, buts or weasel words.
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Fredd
post Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 08:18
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QUOTE (666 @ Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 08:50) *
But that link is not the Highway Code, which is clear https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-cod...ders-103-to-158 (Rule 123). The OP was in no doubt that he was driving a goods vehicle. There are no ifs, buts or weasel words.

The "car derived van" part causes endless confusion, because it's not at all clear to many (including to some speed camera organisations whose efforts we've seen here) which vehicles are and aren't "car derived".


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The Rookie
post Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 08:40
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The car derived is an issue, the legislation hasn't kept up with the original intent.

What isn't in question is the limit for larger vans, they have always been restricted below the car speed limits.

What we don't know here (in an argument heading for the flame pit perhaps) is what van the OP was driving. If it was 'possibly' a CDV then here is a discussion to be had, if it clearly was not then no discussion is needed here I think.

Ironically the OP says his V5c says his van is an LGV, so his argument in that respect is a nullity, so unless you can look at it and decide (erroneously or otherwise) it's a CDV the limit is crystal clear.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 08:41


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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NewJudge
post Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 08:45
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QUOTE (Dogeat @ Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 17:47) *
How can my V5 state light goods vehicle yet I'm to follow the rules of a heavy goods vehicle. I don't hold a Heavy goods licence so how do I follow the rules of a licence that I don't hold?

You're not being told to follow the rules for a heavy goods vehicle (which are subject to even lower speed limits). You're being told to follow the rules for a goods vehicle of under 7.5 tonnes MLW. Which is what you have told us you were driving.

Provided you have not done one for an offence that occurred in the three years prior to this one, you should be offered a course for that speed. Many areas are now offering a remote version (normal course are not held at the moment for obvious reasons). If not you will be offered a fixed penalty of £100 and three points.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 08:49
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baroudeur
post Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 14:54
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 08:45) *
................You're not being told to follow the rules for a [b]heavy goods vehicle (which are subject to even lower speed limits)[/b].


The speed limit is 50mph on a single carriageway road for Large Goods Vehicles over 7.5t (but still 40mph in Scotland)


QUOTE (NewJudge @ Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 08:45) *
................You're not being told to follow the rules for a [b]heavy goods vehicle (which are subject to even lower speed limits)[/b].


The speed limit is 50mph on a single carriageway road for Large Goods Vehicles over 7.5t (but still 40mph in Scotland)
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Logician
post Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 18:01
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Further into the Flamepit, but in my opinion it should be compulsory for vans and other goods vehicles to have a table of speed limit fixed to their dashboards. We see the same problem again and again their drivers often have no idea what limits apply, particularly if they have just hired a van to shift some gear.


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PECFRO
post Tue, 4 Aug 2020 - 08:43
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QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 18:01) *
Further into the Flamepit, but in my opinion it should be compulsory for vans and other goods vehicles to have a table of speed limit fixed to their dashboards. We see the same problem again and again their drivers often have no idea what limits apply, particularly if they have just hired a van to shift some gear.

Particularly hire vans
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peodude
post Tue, 4 Aug 2020 - 15:52
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More Flame Pit but it is outdated nowadays anyway. Especially with the smaller vans. A fully laden VW Caddy or Transit Connect will weigh actually weigh less then most modern large vehicles yet are subject to the lower speed limits. Plus with modern brakes the differences in stopping distances are probably minimal anyway.
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cp8759
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 18:14
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QUOTE (peodude @ Tue, 4 Aug 2020 - 16:52) *
Plus with modern brakes the differences in stopping distances are probably minimal anyway.

With modern brakes there's a lot of speed limits that make no sense.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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roythebus
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 23:11
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I often wonder how my partner's Discovery van fares in all this. It was LEZ/C zone exempt as a low emission commercial in London, but had to pay van rate on Dartford Crossing, but couldn't go through Rotherhithe Tunnel as it was a van but my Range Rover which is heavier and slightly bigger could! Now her van has to be paid for in the C zone as they've changed the goalpost again.

I suppose it goes by what it says in the V5.

But I digress.
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