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Parking ticket from council, no evidence I was parked
Alipie
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 13:43
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Hi, I went to Devon last week, parked my car in what I thought was a free space above the beach, as I went to leave a guy locked the gate then demanded I paid him £40 to leave, I didn't see the sign as I drove in but it states gate closes at 10:30pm I was driving out at 10:35pm, i asked if he would let me leave as it was my birthday.
He wouldn't then proceeded to write me a ticket, I have attached it below and its from the council but I wouldn't let him attach it to my car and he didn't take any photos of my car being there, I checked and there is no signage to say you have to pay for a parking ticket, there was no means to pay for a ticket, the only sign says £40 release fee to open the gate.

I have gone online to try and find any evidence and the page won't even load.
Should I respond to the ticket or leave it and wait for them to send me something in the post or respond to the ticket and ask for proof I was actually there?
Any advise would be appreciated
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post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 13:43
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stamfordman
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 13:59
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here? looks like he was pulling fast one

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.1676641,-4....3312!8i6656
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mickR
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 14:00
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So, he waited till you were leaving at 10.35 and closed the gate to stop you leaving? did you pay him the £40? If so did you get receipt?
Am i right in that they charged you £40 on the spot, and gave you a pcn for a further £50 (£25 early payment)

We need to see the order relating to that car park.
Edit re @stampf.
So free car park but charge a release fee and ticket for overstay? No gate in GSV but might be old.

This post has been edited by mickR: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 14:04
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 14:01
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edit

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 14:01


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stamfordman
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 14:11
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Yes think GSV is old. Can't quickly see info on this one but it seems it's now a paid for car park?
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mickR
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 14:13
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Yep paid for till 6pm but no mention on Devon cc site of closing time nor release fee.
OP what time did you park?
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Alipie
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 14:33
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QUOTE (mickR @ Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 15:00) *
So, he waited till you were leaving at 10.35 and closed the gate to stop you leaving? did you pay him the £40? If so did you get receipt?
Am i right in that they charged you £40 on the spot, and gave you a pcn for a further £50 (£25 early payment)

We need to see the order relating to that car park.
Edit re @stampf.
So free car park but charge a release fee and ticket for overstay? No gate in GSV but might be old.



So as I was driving out of marine Drive, thanks for the picture btw! he had already locked the entrance with a chain, I refused to pay him £40 so wrote the ticket out instead.

he finally opened the gate and left the ticket on the post as I wouldn't let him touch my car, I was going to drive off and not pick it up but I decided to get it to see what it said.

I have attached a pic of the only sign that indicates about the gate but nothing to show any fine, there was another sign that says £40 release fee but that's it
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 14:55
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QUOTE (mickR @ Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 15:13) *
Yep paid for till 6pm but no mention on Devon cc site of closing time nor release fee.
OP what time did you park?


Order

https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/T...0Devon/DX06.pdf

A contravention to park in a closed car park but nothing to say that it is to overstay the opening hours. What does the sign say.

You have a PCN for being parked in a car park when closed, but where you parked or where you prevented from leaving by reasons beyond your control. The guy had plenty of time to take photos if he had you chained in so why didn't he

Also the order states that if the PCN is not paid the authority may take civil action through the courts. Ehh No


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Alipie
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 15:35
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I was parked from about 8pm till 10:35pm as I was by the gate just as he locked it, he didn't have time to take pictures of my car and I was filming him writing me out a ticket, that flustered him.

What do you recommend my next step should be? write to them and ask for evidence I was parked or wait for them to send me the second ticket in the post and say I never received the first ticket?

Thanks for everyones help

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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 16:55
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If you didn't let him fix the ticket to your car how did you come by it?

I am starting to see challenge grounds here but lets get the ducks in a row post the back of the PCN


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Alipie
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 17:57
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I was arguing with him telling him he couldn't leave it on my car so I said "leave it on the post and ill pick it up on the way out", He unlocked the chain and I was just going to drive off but my girlfriend ended up, picking it up.

Thats how I have the ticket
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 18:20
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QUOTE (Alipie @ Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 18:57) *
I was arguing with him telling him he couldn't leave it on my car so I said "leave it on the post and ill pick it up on the way out", He unlocked the chain and I was just going to drive off but my girlfriend ended up, picking it up.

Thats how I have the ticket


So no proper service. Service can only be made by affixing to the vehicle of handing the PCN to the person appearing to be the driver. If service is prevented as in this case the council may serve a PCN by post but this is different procedurally and has not been done It should also be noted that at the time of issue of the PCN you where talking to the CEO If indeed he was a CEO If the gate was chained at the time of service of the PCN you were prevented from moving for reasons beyond your control (maybe not strong but the council would have to address this and if they do not that is another reason for cancelation

Really need to see the back of te PCN

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 18:23


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Alipie
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 18:43
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Ok thanks, I have attached the back of the ticket
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 21:41
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To maintain the discount you need to submit a challenge by Monday.


I returned to my car at approximately 10.30 pm There was a CEO locking the gate. He told me that there would be a release fee of £40. I refused to pay this. He then proceeded to write a PCN. I refused to accept this and refused to let the CEO affix this PCN to my vehicle.

The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 make regulation for what may happen in this situation. That is to serve a regulation 10 penalty charge notice by post. Tat the regulation 9 PCN was not served as per the regulation leave this as the only option open to the council if they wish to continue enforcement. No regulation 9 PCN was served and thus enforcement cannot occur.

Further there are no signs in situ setting out the terms of use of the car park outlining that a PCN may be served for any breach without this sign no PCN can be served as it is trite law that any restrictions must be signed

Something along those lines. it's a bit rough and ready but would suffice for informal challenge


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cp8759
post Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 22:04
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This all seems extremely dubious, I've never heard of a CEO seeking a cash payment and by demanding a cash payment, he effectively stepped out of the statutory framework (after all no PCN had been served, and how would you even challenge it? I'm sure he wouldn't have an appeal form to hand to you.).

Post up the rear of the PCN, as any flaws in the small print can make it invalid and these smaller rural councils often get this sort of thing wrong.


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No, I am not a lawyer.
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Alipie
post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 15:15
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 23:04) *
This all seems extremely dubious, I've never heard of a CEO seeking a cash payment and by demanding a cash payment, he effectively stepped out of the statutory framework (after all no PCN had been served, and how would you even challenge it? I'm sure he wouldn't have an appeal form to hand to you.).

Post up the rear of the PCN, as any flaws in the small print can make it invalid and these smaller rural councils often get this sort of thing wrong.



Yea he was demanding £40 cash then the ticket says £25, really dodgy! I posted the back of the ticket a couple up from your last post rolleyes.gif

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sat, 1 Aug 2020 - 22:41) *
To maintain the discount you need to submit a challenge by Monday.


I returned to my car at approximately 10.30 pm There was a CEO locking the gate. He told me that there would be a release fee of £40. I refused to pay this. He then proceeded to write a PCN. I refused to accept this and refused to let the CEO affix this PCN to my vehicle.

The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 make regulation for what may happen in this situation. That is to serve a regulation 10 penalty charge notice by post. Tat the regulation 9 PCN was not served as per the regulation leave this as the only option open to the council if they wish to continue enforcement. No regulation 9 PCN was served and thus enforcement cannot occur.

Further there are no signs in situ setting out the terms of use of the car park outlining that a PCN may be served for any breach without this sign no PCN can be served as it is trite law that any restrictions must be signed

Something along those lines. it's a bit rough and ready but would suffice for informal challenge


Lovely thanks a lot, I send that off now
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cp8759
post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 15:27
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I don't think the PCN complies with reg 2(b)(ii) but it's not exactly a compelling case on that front. I suspect we'll find far better flaws in subsequent documents.

I wonder if they fill in the NtO by pen as well rolleyes.gif

Speaking of which, are you the registered keeper of the vehicle? As in, do you have a V5C in your name?


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mickR
post Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 10:41
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It woukd have been interesting to know what would have happened if the "CEO" come Gatekeeper hadnt been there. Would the OP had to phone and request release? A fee would have been more appropriate in those circumstances, or would the OPs car have been locked in till morning along with a PCN for £50(£25) ?
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Alipie
post Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 12:49
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 16:27) *
I don't think the PCN complies with reg 2(b)(ii) but it's not exactly a compelling case on that front. I suspect we'll find far better flaws in subsequent documents.

I wonder if they fill in the NtO by pen as well rolleyes.gif

Speaking of which, are you the registered keeper of the vehicle? As in, do you have a V5C in your name?


Yes I am registered keeper of the vehicle on the V5 document
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cp8759
post Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 18:35
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Double check that the address is 100% correct and up to date, you'd be surprised how many people we see who forget to update this after moving house.


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No, I am not a lawyer.
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