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[NIP Wizard] Incorrect Location of Offence
mopo
post Sat, 18 Jul 2020 - 14:04
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - July 2020
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A243 Hook Rd nr Hawkhurst Gdns
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Was driving in London on that date but not in this location - location of offence is incorrect. Unsure how to proceed with form.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - No
Do you know who was driving? - Yes

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Complete the Section 172 statement naming the person you believe was driving.
    You aren't incriminating them - they'll receive a NIP to complete themselves in due course.

    (You might also like to let that person know that they can expect to receive one, and give them the link to this Wizard for when it arrives!)

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 14:04:05 +0000
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post Sat, 18 Jul 2020 - 14:04
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Jlc
post Sat, 18 Jul 2020 - 14:16
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This camera it seems.

What was your route?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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cp8759
post Sat, 18 Jul 2020 - 21:49
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I would write back to the police asking for photos to aid in the identification of the driver, they are normally provided upon request. You never know, if you're lucky it might turn out to be a mis-read.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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The Rookie
post Sun, 19 Jul 2020 - 03:03
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Or an admin screw up with the wrong location used, we’ve seen that before.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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andy_foster
post Sun, 19 Jul 2020 - 15:48
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QUOTE (mopo @ Sat, 18 Jul 2020 - 15:04) *
location of offence is incorrect. Unsure how to proceed with form.


There is an allegation that the driver of a particular vehicle committed a particular offence at a particular time and place.

If you would like to let us know how you know that the location is the incorrect detail, we might be better placed to advise.


--------------------
Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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mopo
post Wed, 22 Jul 2020 - 19:28
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Hello,

Thanks for your responses. I was not in that part of London identified on the NIP. I was in the Elephant and Castle area.

I was not the driver but was in the car, so will identify the driver on the form.

We were 7mph over the limit so it does say that the driver may be able to take an educational course instead of paying a fine and having penalty points.

Still I would like to see the evidence of the location since I don't believe I was in the location cited.

I thought I will fill out the form identifying the driver and add the below, does this sound ok?

Thanks.


Dear Sir/Madam

Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) Number - ********


I am in receipt of the above numbered notice.

As you are aware, where the driver was not stopped at the time, Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 requires that a Notice of Intended Prosecution, specifying, inter alia, the place where the alleged offence occurred, be sent to the Registered Keeper within 14 days.

As you will be aware from your records, the place, as specified in this case was A243 Hook Rd nr Hawkhurst Gdns.

I think that the police evidence of the location is inaccurate. I am entitled to a copy of the photographic or video evidence so that I can have its accuracy verified.

On reviewing the evidence I expect to request a new NIP with a more accurate locus.

Yours faithfully,




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southpaw82
post Wed, 22 Jul 2020 - 19:38
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QUOTE (mopo @ Wed, 22 Jul 2020 - 20:28) *
I am entitled to a copy of the photographic or video evidence so that I can have its accuracy verified.

Are you?


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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NewJudge
post Wed, 22 Jul 2020 - 19:45
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QUOTE (mopo @ Wed, 22 Jul 2020 - 20:28) *
I am entitled to a copy of the photographic or video evidence so that I can have its accuracy verified.

Alas you are not. You can ask for "photographs to help identify the driver". There is no obligation to provide them but they usually do. They don't usually help with the driver's identity but they may help you identify the location. They may also help ensure it is your vehicle. Such a request does not extend the 28 days you have to reply.

You need to be careful asking for "evidence" as they may simply proceed to charge you with "Failing to provide drivers details".

Hook is down near Chessington, probably 15 miles or so from the Elephant & Castle. Were you in the Hook area at all that day?
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Tartarus
post Thu, 23 Jul 2020 - 11:35
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Know that camera very well, it's been there a very long time. And yes, that's Tolworth area of the A3, quite some miles from E&C. Could be a plate misread?
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mopo
post Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 15:14
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Thanks for all the helpful comments so far. Just re-writing my letter to respond. I will identify the driver on the form and attaching the following, any comments of on the draft welcome. Thanks.

Dear Sir/Madam

Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) Number - ********

I am in receipt of the above numbered notice.

As you are aware, where the driver was not stopped at the time, Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 requires that a Notice of Intended Prosecution, specifying, inter alia, the place where the alleged offence occurred, be sent to the Registered Keeper within 14 days.

In the NIP received, the place specified in this case was A243 Hook Rd nr Hawkhurst Gdns, allegedly recording the vehicle as driving at 37mph in a 30mph zone.

However, I believe the location on the letter is incorrect, since this was not on the route that the vehicle was taking on that day.

I was not driving when the alleged offence took place. I believe the driver at the time of the alleged offence is the person named on the form attached. But as noted here, I believe that the vehicle was not at the location identified on the NIP.

If the NIP has not in fact correctly identified the location, it would mean that a new NIP would be needed specifying the correct place where the alleged offence occurred and would therefore be beyond the 14 day period required.

Further, if the location is incorrect, this could also mean that the registration was incorrectly recorded (and therefore is not the vehicle for which I am the registered keeper); and that the driver was therefore not the person identified on the form.

I am therefore requesting to review a copy of the photographs noted in your letter to aid in identifying the driver and location, and to ensure that I am in fact the registered keeper of the vehicle that was recorded.

Yours faithfully,

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666
post Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 16:04
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I would suggest you approach it from the angle that it's the vehicle that has been identified wrongly, not the location.

I'd also omit the two paras beginning "If the NIP ...". They already know all that, and it's never a good idea to appear a smarta**e.



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mopo
post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 16:24
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Ok thank you, I'll get onto this, fingers crossed.
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