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HELP! STICKY S172 Single Justice Procedural Notice., Baffled to what steps to take next😕
Supreme_01
post Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 21:15
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Hi Guys,

Bit of a tricky one here and ill put my hands up i am partly to blame for some of it. Long story short, i took one of my freinds with me on a job in my company vehicle. On the way back i suffered a migraine attack (i get these often) and he offered to drive back which i let him.. he has his own car and told me he is insured and is covered 3rd party on any any other vehicle.

I didnt have reason to doubt him so that was that. Then the below happened..got caught by a mobile speeding device doing 35mph in a 30mph zone. This got sent to my work place and since the vehicle in question was allocated to me from the company i had been nominated as the driver.

Once i recieved this i got in touch with my friend and told him he has unfortunately been caught speeding in the company vehicle on that day and he said to put his details down as the driver and he will take care of it.

I did this and sent off the paperwork with his details...just to find out the below...apparently he doesnt have a licence (any more) and has failed to respond! I have tried to get hold of him but have failed on many attempts. I am now stuck with s172 and need to fill it out and send back but im baffled as what to do as im left in a right mess thanks to that tw&%!!

Whats even more baffling is on the s172 form i have just received the date for the charge (Failing to give information relating to identifincation of the driver of vehicle when required) is 12/03/20?

Where has this date come from? As its not mentioned on any of the dates below..

Please see below how the story has unfolded thus far. They said they sent out a letter to me to re-check my details but i never got this so called letter. Any advice on the next steps will be much appreciated. Thanks.

------------------------‐--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On xx/01/2020 a Notice of Intended Prosecution and request for identifincation of the driver was sent by first class post to COMPANY SECRETARY. **MY WORK PLACE**

On xx/02/2020 the Section 172 response was received at the Central Ticket Office by post nominating **MYSELF** as the driver at the time of the alleged offence.

On xx/02/2020 A Notice of Intended Prosecution and request for ldentification of a driver was sent by first class post to **MYSELF**

On XX/02/2020 the Section 172 response was received at the Central Ticket Office by post nominating **THE DRIVER IN THIS CASE MY FREIND** as the driver at the time of the alleged offence.

On 04/03/2020 A Notice of Intended Prosecution and request for ldentification of a driver was sent by first class post to **THE DRIVER IN THIS CASE MY FREIND**

On 26/03/2020 A notice reminder letter was sent from the Central Ticket Office to **THE DRIVER IN THIS CASE MY FREIND**

On 17/04/2020 Enquiries were made by the Central Ticket Office. On the information available there was no record of a DVLA driving licence for**THE DRIVER IN THIS CASE MY FREIND** or Uk phonebook record.

On xx/04/2020 A letter was sent from the Central Ticket Office to COMPANY SECRETARY. **MY WORK PLACE**advising that their nominated driver (MYSELF)had nominated another person and to confirm If **THE DRIVER IN THIS CASE MY FREIND** is employed by the company and any relevant Insurance details it appropriate.

On 21/04/2020 an email was received at the Central Ticket Office from **MY WORK PLACE** stating **THE DRIVER IN THIS CASE MY FREIND**has never been employed by the company and did not have permission to drive the vehicle.

On 22/04/2020 A letter was sent from the Central Ticket Office to **MYSELF** advising to re-check their records as the statement provided may be Incorrect and to provide any further evidence to Support their statement. ***NEVER RECEIVED THIS LETTER**

No response was received and therefore on xx/05/20 further enquiries were completed by the Central Ticket Office.

The DVLA driving licence record for **MYSELF** and the electoral roll both confirmed his address as **MY ADDRESS**

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post Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 21:15
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The Rookie
post Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 21:31
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Date of the S172 offence is the date that the response should have arrived back to them. So two working days for delivery of the request and 28 days for you to reply. A quick run through in my head says the date you obscured for the notice to you was 12/02.

If you’ve only been charged with the S172,it’s irrelevant he doesn’t have a licence, you just have to convince the court the nomination was correct to be found not guilty. Will he appear as witness?

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 21:37


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Supreme_01
post Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 21:49
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 22:31) *
Date of the S172 offence is the date that the response should have arrived back to them. So two working days for delivery of the request and 28 days for you to reply. A quick run through in my head says the date you obscured for the notice to you was 12/02.

If you’ve only been charged with the S172,it’s irrelevant he doesn’t have a licence, you just have to convince the court the nomination was correct to be found not guilty. Will he appear as witness?



Thanks for your response, yes the date was the 11/02

Yes on the s172 there is just the one charge of failing to give information of the driver, i doubt he will be appearing as witness as i cant get in touch with him! What will be the best plan of action
send the papers back as not guilty?
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cp8759
post Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 22:36
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Well, presumably you can provide some sort of evidence to confirm your friend actually exists, right?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Supreme_01
post Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 22:53
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 23:36) *
Well, presumably you can provide some sort of evidence to confirm your friend actually exists, right?



I have provided his full name and address, these are the details i was asked to supply.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 05:42
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That’s not the question asked though is it, so can you provide any sort of evidence?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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cp8759
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 08:13
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 06:42) *
That’s not the question asked though is it, so can you provide any sort of evidence?

Quite. If the police outright accusing you of making up a non-existent friend, you're going to want a bit more than just a name and address.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 10:05
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You have to create reasonable doubt that the allegation is untrue.

So as the Police are firstly saying he doesn’t exist, you need to present some form of evidence that he does exist.

Ideally you also present some form of evidence that he was driving, starting with being with you that journey.

If the court accepts the person named was more likely than not driving then they should acquit, his licence status or insurance status being completely irrelevant to that.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Supreme_01
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 10:43
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:05) *
You have to create reasonable doubt that the allegation is untrue.

So as the Police are firstly saying he doesn’t exist, you need to present some form of evidence that he does exist.

Ideally you also present some form of evidence that he was driving, starting with being with you that journey.

If the court accepts the person named was more likely than not driving then they should acquit, his licence status or insurance status being completely irrelevant to that.


Morning Guys, only other information i have is his phone number which is switched off as i have been trying him! I dont know how else i can prove he was driving..looks like im screwed here.. worst case scenario can i go down the route of accepting the speeding if they drop the s172 like ive read on other posts on here. Cant think of anything else i can do. Thanks
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Slapdash
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:07
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You can't really accept the speeding if you are maintaining somebody else was driving.

People have gone to jail for that.

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TMC Towcester
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:12
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QUOTE (Supreme_01 @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:43) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:05) *
You have to create reasonable doubt that the allegation is untrue.

So as the Police are firstly saying he doesn’t exist, you need to present some form of evidence that he does exist.

Ideally you also present some form of evidence that he was driving, starting with being with you that journey.

If the court accepts the person named was more likely than not driving then they should acquit, his licence status or insurance status being completely irrelevant to that.


Morning Guys, only other information i have is his phone number which is switched off as i have been trying him! I dont know how else i can prove he was driving..looks like im screwed here.. worst case scenario can i go down the route of accepting the speeding if they drop the s172 like ive read on other posts on here. Cant think of anything else i can do. Thanks


Howsabout social media? Electoral roll? His employer? As a friend you'll know these things - you're facing a big fine and 6 points (hopefully not PCoJ) so go round his house or his family? Knock on a few doors?
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cp8759
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:25
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QUOTE (Supreme_01 @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:43) *
Morning Guys, only other information i have is his phone number which is switched off as i have been trying him! I dont know how else i can prove he was driving..looks like im screwed here.. worst case scenario can i go down the route of accepting the speeding if they drop the s172 like ive read on other posts on here. Cant think of anything else i can do. Thanks

Facebook profile? Linkedin? whatapp messages? There aren't that many people who have absolutely zero digital footprint nowadays. As has been pointed out if you weren't driving you can't plead guilty to speeding, you could go to prison for that.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Supreme_01
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:26
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QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 12:12) *
QUOTE (Supreme_01 @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:43) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:05) *
You have to create reasonable doubt that the allegation is untrue.

So as the Police are firstly saying he doesn’t exist, you need to present some form of evidence that he does exist.

Ideally you also present some form of evidence that he was driving, starting with being with you that journey.

If the court accepts the person named was more likely than not driving then they should acquit, his licence status or insurance status being completely irrelevant to that.


Morning Guys, only other information i have is his phone number which is switched off as i have been trying him! I dont know how else i can prove he was driving..looks like im screwed here.. worst case scenario can i go down the route of accepting the speeding if they drop the s172 like ive read on other posts on here. Cant think of anything else i can do. Thanks


Howsabout social media? Electoral roll? His employer? As a friend you'll know these things - you're facing a big fine and 6 points (hopefully not PCoJ) so go round his house or his family? Knock on a few doors?


Ive been round to his house a few times but his not been there. Im going to have to go on a hunt for him and check with some other people.
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TMC Towcester
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:34
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QUOTE (Supreme_01 @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 12:26) *
QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 12:12) *
QUOTE (Supreme_01 @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:43) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:05) *
You have to create reasonable doubt that the allegation is untrue.

So as the Police are firstly saying he doesn’t exist, you need to present some form of evidence that he does exist.

Ideally you also present some form of evidence that he was driving, starting with being with you that journey.

If the court accepts the person named was more likely than not driving then they should acquit, his licence status or insurance status being completely irrelevant to that.


Morning Guys, only other information i have is his phone number which is switched off as i have been trying him! I dont know how else i can prove he was driving..looks like im screwed here.. worst case scenario can i go down the route of accepting the speeding if they drop the s172 like ive read on other posts on here. Cant think of anything else i can do. Thanks


Howsabout social media? Electoral roll? His employer? As a friend you'll know these things - you're facing a big fine and 6 points (hopefully not PCoJ) so go round his house or his family? Knock on a few doors?


Ive been round to his house a few times but his not been there. Im going to have to go on a hunt for him and check with some other people.


If he has a house he'll be on the electoral roll and the Land Registry if he owns it - if you're being pressured to 'prove it' these kind of things are (pseudo) proof. As before, he must have a social media footprint? Was his car outside? He had an insurance policy?
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The Rookie
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:53
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With no licence he realistically won’t have a car or insurance.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Supreme_01
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:55
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QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 12:34) *
QUOTE (Supreme_01 @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 12:26) *
QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 12:12) *
QUOTE (Supreme_01 @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:43) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:05) *
You have to create reasonable doubt that the allegation is untrue.

So as the Police are firstly saying he doesn’t exist, you need to present some form of evidence that he does exist.

Ideally you also present some form of evidence that he was driving, starting with being with you that journey.

If the court accepts the person named was more likely than not driving then they should acquit, his licence status or insurance status being completely irrelevant to that.


Morning Guys, only other information i have is his phone number which is switched off as i have been trying him! I dont know how else i can prove he was driving..looks like im screwed here.. worst case scenario can i go down the route of accepting the speeding if they drop the s172 like ive read on other posts on here. Cant think of anything else i can do. Thanks


Howsabout social media? Electoral roll? His employer? As a friend you'll know these things - you're facing a big fine and 6 points (hopefully not PCoJ) so go round his house or his family? Knock on a few doors?


Ive been round to his house a few times but his not been there. Im going to have to go on a hunt for him and check with some other people.


If he has a house he'll be on the electoral roll and the Land Registry if he owns it - if you're being pressured to 'prove it' these kind of things are (pseudo) proof. As before, he must have a social media footprint? Was his car outside? He had an insurance policy?


Thanks guys for all your help and suggestions of going down different avenues to gain proof. I will be using all these suggestions to build up a portfolio and hopefully will have enough evidence to make my case stronger. Ill report back with my findings after ive done some digging about. Thanks all.
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peodude
post Yesterday, 13:03
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You can also check the phonebook etc. using www.192.com.
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