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Bald tyre, Bald tyre and was issued a Traffic offence report
dos
post Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 20:59
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Hi All,
Last week I was stopped by a police officer and after inspecting my car told me that one of my tyre is below 1.6mm and he therefore issued me a traffic offence report stating the code as RC86027.

In March 2020, I had MOT done on the car as passed and everything was ok. I had only used this car 3 times since then and I had all confidence that the car was ok to drive.
After the incident with the police, he allowed me to drive the car home and the next day I booked an MOT and it passed with advisory on 2 tyres closed to the legal limit worn on edge ( one of which was identify by the copper). I also booked through a reputable garage for tyre check and inspections, all tyres were checked and results were 2 are to be replaced due to 2.mm level ( as advised by the MOT) and the other 2 are mentioned as advised.

The garage report was well documented and emailed to me and photos of all tyres were taken and mentioned in the report.

The cop told me that I will receive a letter in 6 weeks.

My concern now are;
1.whether to provide the ticketing office with the evidence that the tyre was not below 1.6mm? And if so, is there possibility they could cancel the intended FPN?

I have not changed the tyre yet and I'm not sure if the cop took a photo or number of my tyre (I'm not bothered). But i know he didn't used a device to measure the tyre.
2.Can i write to the ticketing office myself or use a lawyer as this is straightforward.

Please help on any of the above questions. Thanks

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post Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 20:59
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Jlc
post Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 21:17
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QUOTE (dos @ Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 21:59) *
1.whether to provide the ticketing office with the evidence that the tyre was not below 1.6mm? And if so, is there possibility they could cancel the intended FPN?

Absolutely. Yes, the officer may realise his 'mistake'.

QUOTE (dos @ Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 21:59) *
I have not changed the tyre yet and I'm not sure if the cop took a photo or number of my tyre (I'm not bothered). But i know he didn't used a device to measure the tyre.
2.Can i write to the ticketing office myself or use a lawyer as this is straightforward.

Tyres have a tread wear indicator - these are at 2mm, so if the tread is higher than these then it's definitely legal.

You don't need a lawyer at this time.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 21:51
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If you change the tyre keep it, get the garage to sign to say where on the car it was, obviously that only works if you change it before it becomes illegal.

Did he take any photos of the tyre?


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dos
post Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 22:39
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 22:17) *
QUOTE (dos @ Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 21:59) *
1.whether to provide the ticketing office with the evidence that the tyre was not below 1.6mm? And if so, is there possibility they could cancel the intended FPN?

Absolutely. Yes, the officer may realise his 'mistake'.

QUOTE (dos @ Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 21:59) *
I have not changed the tyre yet and I'm not sure if the cop took a photo or number of my tyre (I'm not bothered). But i know he didn't used a device to measure the tyre.
2.Can i write to the ticketing office myself or use a lawyer as this is straightforward.

Tyres have a tread wear indicator - these are at 2mm, so if the tread is higher than these then it's definitely legal.

You don't need a lawyer at this time.



QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 22:17) *
QUOTE (dos @ Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 21:59) *
1.whether to provide the ticketing office with the evidence that the tyre was not below 1.6mm? And if so, is there possibility they could cancel the intended FPN?

Absolutely. Yes, the officer may realise his 'mistake'.

QUOTE (dos @ Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 21:59) *
I have not changed the tyre yet and I'm not sure if the cop took a photo or number of my tyre (I'm not bothered). But i know he didn't used a device to measure the tyre.
2.Can i write to the ticketing office myself or use a lawyer as this is straightforward.

Tyres have a tread wear indicator - these are at 2mm, so if the tread is higher than these then it's definitely legal.

Yes the tread has middle 3mm, inner 3mm, and outer 2mm. The other has middle 2mm, inner 3mm and outer 3mm.
So is this ok or all has to be above 2mm?

You don't need a lawyer at this time.

Thanks

No photo was taken.


Yes the tread has middle 3mm, inner 3mm, and outer 2mm. The other has middle 2mm, inner 3mm and outer 3mm.
So is this ok or all has to be above 2mm?

No photo was taken.
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Logician
post Sun, 28 Jun 2020 - 00:06
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The requirement on a car is at least 1.6mm throughout a continuous band in the centre 3/4 of the tread and around the entire circumference of the tyre.


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cp8759
post Sun, 28 Jun 2020 - 11:07
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It sounds like you have evidence from two independents garages that your car has worn but still legal tyres. There are two possible explanations for this:

1) The officer made a mistake, or

2) You are guilty, so to cover your tracks you somehow found a very worn but still legal tyre and used it to replace the illegal tyre, before going for the MOT and the tyre inspection

The first explanation is intrinsically more likely, and there is no evidence whatsoever to support the second explanation. Therefore even if the police are daft enough to pursue this, you should absolutely plead not guilty and take this to trial IMO. The issues are really quite simple and you do not need a lawyer for a case like this.


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No, I am not a lawyer.
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Jimzzr
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:57
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QUOTE (Logician @ Sun, 28 Jun 2020 - 00:06) *
The requirement on a car is at least 1.6mm throughout a continuous band in the centre 3/4 of the tread and around the entire circumference of the tyre.


Noting that only full depth grooves are considered tread

"In simple terms, grooves containing tread wear indicators (TWI) or grooves cut as deep as those containing the wear indicators when new, are considered to be primary grooves. Other grooves or sipes that are not cut as deep as the primary grooves are secondary grooves and are not to be considered when assessing tread depth."


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dos
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 14:53
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Thanks guys,.

Since I had the vehicle, I have never changed the tyres. If this goes to court on the basis that the tyre was changed, then I will need to speak to the dealer for further evidence on the tyre. Infact all 3 of the tyres are of the same made (including the one pointed out as bald). I believe there will be serial number to match all.

I've sent a letter to the ticketing office and I've received an acknowledgement saying they are looking into it. Will update you guys.

I have 2 cars and will not change the tyre yet, not drive the car yet. If I'm going to change the tyre I will take it to the same garage so that they will validate the work. I will also keep the replace tyres for evidence.

A lawyer told me £840 to do this job?
So thanks again for your help and advise on this
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cp8759
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 17:27
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There is zero evidence to suggest the tyre was changed, so I really wouldn't worry about that. The court can only make a finding based on evidence, they can't convict you based on speculation (otherwise it would never end, and you could argue a little green man from mars teleported a different tyre onto the car when you weren't looking).

So the only thing you need to do is put forward your case that the tyre was legal and both the MOT and the tyre inspection confirmed this. At that point the police will have no evidence to rebut this and their case should get thrown out.

You really don't need a lawyer.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Foxy01
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 17:44
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Were you stopped by 'Traffic Officers'? If not some officers have an obsession with 'visible tread'.
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Slapdash
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 18:09
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It may be useful to do a search. A very similar issue occured recently.

I think the pster got a VOSA report and the ticket rescinded.
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sean5302
post Wed, 1 Jul 2020 - 12:11
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If the "officer" isn't a trained vehicle examiner, they're on shaky ground.
Did he use a gauge to measure the tread and show you the reading?
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dos
post Thu, 2 Jul 2020 - 19:25
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Thanks guys.
I was stopped by 2 officers.
There was no measurement used except observation. I'm not sure if he took the tyre number. Though I'm not concerned about that as since I bought the car from the dealer no tyre were changed.
Not sure a photo take as well.
I am confident that the tyre are the same as was bought from the dealer and the same as inspected from the mot and garage.
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southpaw82
post Thu, 2 Jul 2020 - 19:32
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QUOTE (dos @ Thu, 2 Jul 2020 - 20:25) *
There was no measurement used except observation.


Are they having a laugh? Unless the tyre was completely bald I’d rate their chances of convincing a court that the tread depth was below the minimum as close to zero.


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sean5302
post Thu, 2 Jul 2020 - 21:03
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Every idiot copper seems to imagine he knows every law.
The reality is that they need a trained vehicle inspector.
They should have brought a vehicle examiner to prove vehicle defects.
If he / they didn't measure your tread with a calibrated gauge, you're laughing and they're shown to be the morons they are.
Even plod Baggins shouldn't disagree. Watch and wait.
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southpaw82
post Thu, 2 Jul 2020 - 21:14
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QUOTE (sean5302 @ Thu, 2 Jul 2020 - 22:03) *
The reality is that they need a trained vehicle inspector.


They really don’t.

QUOTE
If he / they didn't measure your tread with a calibrated gauge, you're laughing and they're shown to be the morons they are.


Or, failing that, some credible evidence.



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sean5302
post Thu, 2 Jul 2020 - 21:28
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 2 Jul 2020 - 22:14) *
QUOTE (sean5302 @ Thu, 2 Jul 2020 - 22:03) *
The reality is that they need a trained vehicle inspector.


They really don’t.

QUOTE
If he / they didn't measure your tread with a calibrated gauge, you're laughing and they're shown to be the morons they are.


Or, failing that, some credible evidence.

When was the law changed, please?
If an idiot runs his fingers over a tyre, despite having received no training and despite possessing no qualifications, why would anyone accept a word he's saying?
He seems to have used no objective, calibrated instrument to support his "opinion".
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Logician
post Thu, 2 Jul 2020 - 23:16
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The officer can give perfectly credible evidence that he observed several tyre tread depth markers level with the tread of the tyre, if it is disputed whether or not it the tread was the required depth throughout a continuous band in the centre 3/4 of the tread and around the entire circumference of the tyre, that is difficult to do with the tyre on the car.

In this case there is evidence from the officer that a tyre was illegal and evidence from the garage that it was not, it is up to the court to decide if there is evidence beyond reasonable doubt that the tyre was worn below the legal limit.


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The Rookie
post Fri, 3 Jul 2020 - 05:51
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QUOTE (sean5302 @ Thu, 2 Jul 2020 - 22:28) *
When was the law changed, please?

It hasn’t been changed, what law requires what you state is required?

However since some tyres now have wear indicators at 2mm it’s rather foolhardy to assume they are all at 1.6mm.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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southpaw82
post Fri, 3 Jul 2020 - 09:06
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QUOTE (sean5302 @ Thu, 2 Jul 2020 - 22:28) *
When was the law changed, please?

Changed from what? The prosecution need sufficient evidence to prove the offence. I can’t see why it wouldn’t be open to a court to convict on the evidence of a “basic plod” who used a depth gauge. I can’t see a city properly requiring that the user be a vehicle examiner.


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