PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Buckingham street pcn, Buckinghamshire council
Ncookie
post Wed, 20 May 2020 - 16:34
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Jun 2019
Member No.: 104,212



Hello
I have received a pcn today for the first time brought to my attention regarding this incident in Aylesbury
I never recurved the first pcn so this is requesting £70
Apparently incident was in January 8th 2020
Letter through the post today
I’d like to explore if any option to appeal this on basis of 28 days or based on other rights to argue the ticket
I have no footage - photos or video so I don’t recall anything to be honest
Can’t say I know who was driving either
I understand many experts on here know how to challenge using law to nil the ticket altogether
If I may request some help pls
I will scan the documents and attach
Many thanks
Regard
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Wed, 20 May 2020 - 16:34
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Ncookie
post Wed, 20 May 2020 - 16:47
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Jun 2019
Member No.: 104,212



All documents

https://ibb.co/QXqFwb7 - pcn

https://ibb.co/Ttf3drq
https://ibb.co/R3LQPSb
https://ibb.co/6wKfbY8
https://ibb.co/tqHsqcJ
https://ibb.co/vJbDPbY
https://ibb.co/SfRrwKY
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Incandescent
post Wed, 20 May 2020 - 17:16
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,725
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,455



It's not a PCN, it's the second statutory document called Notice to Owner. issued when there has been no response to the PCN (payment or challenge). The time limit to issue this is 6 months from date of alleged contravention, the 28 days is only guidance. Why not see if they have any photos on their website to jog your memory. Who was driving is irrelevant, as the vehicle owner is responsible for payment or appeal.

The alleged contravention is for parking on yellow lines during the restricted period, and as Buckingham Street in Aylesbury has either parking bays or double-yellow lines it looks as if the car was parked on them. There are two exemptions - (1) loading/unloading, (but not from just having shopped), and (2) boarding/alighting passengers. However, as you remember nothing it doesn't look as if you have a get-out there. As it's the NtO, the discount has gone, so no point in just coughing-up now. Submit representations that you have no knowledge of the allegation, and with the NtO issued four months after the event you consider the issue of the NtO unfair and request it be cancelled.

Others on here will no doubt give their own slant on this,

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
stamfordman
post Wed, 20 May 2020 - 17:40
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,037
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



As said, check the council site to see if there are any pics of car and PCN served. The PCN time was 21.44 so at a time when someone may well have snatched the PCN as prank as I'm afraid people do.

Making reps is a no brainer at least to recover the discount.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 20 May 2020 - 17:41
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 20 May 2020 - 18:03
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20,392
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



From the statutory guidance. The council MUST have regard for this so put them to proof as to the reason for the delay. Lockdown won't cut it


Issuing the Notice to Owner 9.10 If the penalty charge is not paid the enforcement authority may issue a Notice to Owner. The purpose of this is to ensure that the penalty charge notice was received by the vehicle owner and to remind the vehicle owner that the payment in full is now due and if it is not paid within a further 28 days it may be increased. The Notice to Owner may be issued 28 days after serving the penalty charge, and we expect authorities to send them within 56 days. The ultimate time limit, in exceptional circumstances, is six months57 from the “relevant date”. There should be a very good reason for waiting that long to serve a Notice to Owner58. The Regulations set out the information that the Notice to Owner must59 give. There are different requirements when the penalty charge notice acts as the Notice to Owner (see paragraph 8.6).


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/go...ns-document.pdf


This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Wed, 20 May 2020 - 18:03


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
stamfordman
post Wed, 20 May 2020 - 18:32
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,037
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



May be a lease car - OP - is it?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ncookie
post Thu, 21 May 2020 - 07:14
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Jun 2019
Member No.: 104,212



QUOTE (Incandescent @ Wed, 20 May 2020 - 18:16) *
It's not a PCN, it's the second statutory document called Notice to Owner. issued when there has been no response to the PCN (payment or challenge). The time limit to issue this is 6 months from date of alleged contravention, the 28 days is only guidance. Why not see if they have any photos on their website to jog your memory. Who was driving is irrelevant, as the vehicle owner is responsible for payment or appeal.

The alleged contravention is for parking on yellow lines during the restricted period, and as Buckingham Street in Aylesbury has either parking bays or double-yellow lines it looks as if the car was parked on them. There are two exemptions - (1) loading/unloading, (but not from just having shopped), and (2) boarding/alighting passengers. However, as you remember nothing it doesn't look as if you have a get-out there. As it's the NtO, the discount has gone, so no point in just coughing-up now. Submit representations that you have no knowledge of the allegation, and with the NtO issued four months after the event you consider the issue of the NtO unfair and request it be cancelled.

Others on here will no doubt give their own slant on this,



Hello Thankyou all for the messages
I have checked online for evidence only photographs available but quite clear it is my car, I’ve figured out who and when used my car and forgot to mention the ticket - no appreciation for sharing/kindness!

https://ibb.co/1MLr3k9 - photos

I didn’t receive any letters apart from the NtO, since the ticket was forgotten about and no paid for they doubled the fine.

I can see they issued the NtO unusually late so can appeal this and state no ticket was issued as far as my knowledge hence the absent response for any attempt to pay fine.

How should I word my reps? Should I quoting any law rights?

The way I should go about this is to appeal the nTo on basis of late letter, but is there anything on the letter that has extra grounds? Ie inappropriate time frame given to respond etc
What are the chances for ticket to be cancelled on any grounds ? Or is the best I can achieve is the 50% discount on ticket





Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Incandescent
post Thu, 21 May 2020 - 08:12
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,725
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,455



I can't see them cancelling, but you might get the discount re-offered. Best to just submit reps and see what they say. I would suggest you go in with the fact you were not driving, and the very late issue of the NtO means you are unable to determine whether the car was legitimately parked or not, bearing in mind the two exemptions to the yellow lines. Post up their reply here when you get it.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Thu, 21 May 2020 - 08:13
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
spaceman
post Thu, 21 May 2020 - 11:38
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 717
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,319



QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 21 May 2020 - 09:12) *
I would suggest you go in with the fact you were not driving....

What relevance is that?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 21 May 2020 - 12:11
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20,392
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (spaceman @ Thu, 21 May 2020 - 12:38) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 21 May 2020 - 09:12) *
I would suggest you go in with the fact you were not driving....

What relevance is that?


After 4 months if you were not driving how could you be expected to know if one of the exemptions might apply so whilst not relivant to liability it has relevance to a possible representation ground


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Incandescent
post Thu, 21 May 2020 - 12:31
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,725
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,455



QUOTE (spaceman @ Thu, 21 May 2020 - 12:38) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 21 May 2020 - 09:12) *
I would suggest you go in with the fact you were not driving....

What relevance is that?

I see your usual helpful comments continue !
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
spaceman
post Fri, 22 May 2020 - 18:19
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 717
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,319



QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 21 May 2020 - 13:31) *
QUOTE (spaceman @ Thu, 21 May 2020 - 12:38) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 21 May 2020 - 09:12) *
I would suggest you go in with the fact you were not driving....

What relevance is that?

I see your usual helpful comments continue !


Always glad to correct errors.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ncookie
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 08:38
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Jun 2019
Member No.: 104,212



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 21 May 2020 - 13:11) *
QUOTE (spaceman @ Thu, 21 May 2020 - 12:38) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 21 May 2020 - 09:12) *
I would suggest you go in with the fact you were not driving....

What relevance is that?


After 4 months if you were not driving how could you be expected to know if one of the exemptions might apply so whilst not relivant to liability it has relevance to a possible representation ground




Thankyou for clarifying this smile.gif
I will send an appeal with the above points,
Do I need to quote anything legal to back up any of my representations?
How should I be wording my appeal to them?
I want to get it right as it may be possible they accept the delay of serving NtO make it difficult to recall any possible grounds for car being on the yellow line and as I was not the driver - whether it was related to offloading/whatever the reasons may be parked inappropriately


If I can be given a rough format on how to write this appeal including all relevant arguments that would be much appreciated
I will aim to write back to them by Monday next week


Thankyou for all your time advice and support so far! :-))))
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 09:26
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,707
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



OP, you're playing games IMO and because of this misguided approach your representations - not appeal - would probably not be as strong as they could be.

Set your sights appropriately: getting the discount re-offered. Anything else would be a bonus.

Pl stop faffing around with who was or wasn't driving and I cannot remember, I'm sorry but to me this smacks of the private ticket shenanigans which abound in the other forum and take up far, far too many posts.

Who was driving? If you know, then say so. We don't need a name, just that we know that any info from them is first-hand and of value.

(I want to get it right as it may be possible they accept the delay of serving NtO make it difficult to recall any possible grounds for car being on the yellow line and as I was not the driver - whether it was related to offloading/whatever the reasons may be parked inappropriately. Just ties you in knots. So I don't know who was driving so cannot give any info regarding the contravention and therefore other than what is shown objectively in the photos I cannot gainsay the CEO's evidence!)

Who is the registered keeper?

Frankly, until the RK issue is nailed then claims let alone hints of delayed NTO are premature.

Over to you.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sat, 23 May 2020 - 09:39
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ncookie
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 11:18
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Jun 2019
Member No.: 104,212



Owner of vehicle is me
And the person driving I can name yes
If it’s representation as a first step then that’s fine, no appeal at this stage I understand
Discounted offer - because never received the ticket on car, and NtO after 4 months
The bonus you’re referring to I guess is if they accept the delayed NtO means it’s hard to recall the nature of incident (details)
Them cancelling the ticket is highly unlikely as you say, it’s not a private ticket a council one.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 12:00
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20,392
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (Ncookie @ Sat, 23 May 2020 - 12:18) *
Owner of vehicle is me
And the person driving I can name yes
If it’s representation as a first step then that’s fine, no appeal at this stage I understand
Discounted offer - because never received the ticket on car, and NtO after 4 months
The bonus you’re referring to I guess is if they accept the delayed NtO means it’s hard to recall the nature of incident (details)
Them cancelling the ticket is highly unlikely as you say, it’s not a private ticket a council one.


And was it you driving? if so then why the stop ? if not then ask the driver, the strongest reps can be made if we know


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ncookie
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 12:51
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Jun 2019
Member No.: 104,212



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sat, 23 May 2020 - 13:00) *
QUOTE (Ncookie @ Sat, 23 May 2020 - 12:18) *
Owner of vehicle is me
And the person driving I can name yes
If it’s representation as a first step then that’s fine, no appeal at this stage I understand
Discounted offer - because never received the ticket on car, and NtO after 4 months
The bonus you’re referring to I guess is if they accept the delayed NtO means it’s hard to recall the nature of incident (details)
Them cancelling the ticket is highly unlikely as you say, it’s not a private ticket a council one.


And was it you driving? if so then why the stop ? if not then ask the driver, the strongest reps can be made if we know



Not me driving, car was borrowed on that day, the person driving says he made a stop there to pick somebody up, he’s not a doctor but says he was helping somebody out and was only parked there for 10 mins or so. Not making excuses here.
And no ticket was left on the car on return
I imagine it might have either fallen off or taken off as a prank.
No ticket so he assumed no issue and had never mentioned anything about it to me as wasn’t aware of any fine issued on the night /date. Not much else to the story.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 13:19
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20,392
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (Ncookie @ Sat, 23 May 2020 - 13:51) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sat, 23 May 2020 - 13:00) *
QUOTE (Ncookie @ Sat, 23 May 2020 - 12:18) *
Owner of vehicle is me
And the person driving I can name yes
If it’s representation as a first step then that’s fine, no appeal at this stage I understand
Discounted offer - because never received the ticket on car, and NtO after 4 months
The bonus you’re referring to I guess is if they accept the delayed NtO means it’s hard to recall the nature of incident (details)
Them cancelling the ticket is highly unlikely as you say, it’s not a private ticket a council one.


And was it you driving? if so then why the stop ? if not then ask the driver, the strongest reps can be made if we know



Not me driving, car was borrowed on that day, the person driving says he made a stop there to pick somebody up, he’s not a doctor but says he was helping somebody out and was only parked there for 10 mins or so. Not making excuses here.
And no ticket was left on the car on return
I imagine it might have either fallen off or taken off as a prank.
No ticket so he assumed no issue and had never mentioned anything about it to me as wasn’t aware of any fine issued on the night /date. Not much else to the story.


So why did picking some body up take ten minutes?


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ncookie
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 14:10
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Jun 2019
Member No.: 104,212



I asked the same question
The person he was picking up was in pretty bad shape at some pub on that street -
He had to go inside and get him out.
Would have been smart to not have parked the car there of course
I think Aylesbury from what I hear hardly has anywhere to stop.
And ticket men obviously are around late at night by the looks of it.
I don’t think the reason for stopping qualifies for any cancellation, so I get that.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Tue, 26 May 2020 - 13:20
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,889
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (Ncookie @ Sat, 23 May 2020 - 15:10) *
I don’t think the reason for stopping qualifies for any cancellation, so I get that.

You think wrong, there is the assisted boarding / alighting exception which is a legal exemption to double yellow lines. I suggest you get and then give us all the facts, in as much detail as possible, and we'll tell you if the exemption is made out or not.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Tue, 26 May 2020 - 13:20


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Tuesday, 2nd June 2020 - 02:48
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.