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10 minute grace period, mixed use bay, Tribunal win!, mixed use pay and display, no loading
Joshmow
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 17:53
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Received a pcn at 15.03 for on street parking in Hampstead.
I was parked legally in the bay with Blue Badge in pay and display. The pay and display parking runs from 9am-3pm. Then it is no loading no 3-8. I’ll post pcn and pics. The council website pictures only show part of the sign.

Does the below apply?



TMA 2004: The Secretary of State’s Statutory Guidance to the Local Authorities on the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions 2015. Section 8.11 states:
The law requires that a penalty charge must not be issued to a vehicle which has stayed parked in a parking place on a road or in a local authority's car park beyond the permitted parking period for a period of time not exceeding 10 minutes. The grace period applies to on-street and off-street parking places provided under traffic orders, whether the period of parking is paid for or free. Any penalty charge during the 10-minute grace period would be illegal, unless the vehicle itself is parked unlawfully.


Thanks

This post has been edited by Joshmow: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 13:08
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post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 17:53
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 18:31
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post a GSV of the location, it sounds like the grace period could apply


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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 18:32
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A BB vehicle in a pay and display bay is acceptable ---- parking is "free" for that vehicle.

Was a clock with the correct time displayed?

If so, the 10 minute period must apply.

Camden has form in this area.

Mick
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DancingDad
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 18:34
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Yup
Not sure why the CEO chose to photograph a tree instead of the sign but.....

It certainly seems that you were lawfully parked up till 3pm and at that point, the 10 minute grace period should apply.

The only caveat would be were you lawfully parked, ie, BB correctly on display with time clock??


Council is likely to respond saying that it does not count on yellow lines... Borrocks to that.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 18:35
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 18:37
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 19:34) *
Yup
Not sure why the CEO chose to photograph a tree instead of the sign but.....

It certainly seems that you were lawfully parked up till 3pm and at that point, the 10 minute grace period should apply.

The only caveat would be were you lawfully parked, ie, BB correctly on display with time clock??


Council is likely to respond saying that it does not count on yellow lines... Borrocks to that.



Agree with Mick and DD but want to see the signs first


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Joshmow
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 18:47
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Yes clock was displayed. Time is unlimited for Blue Badge in pay on display in Camden so I don’t think the clock would would come into it, because any time on it would be ok. however it was displayed.

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Joshmow
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 19:15
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Sorry I can’t work out how to post the google street view thing. That’s something I’d need my carer to do I think. I have looked on google street view, but the sign is different, so I wonder if they changed it recently.

I can get a photo of the sign over the weekend, or before maybe, my carer can get one for me. I’ll add it as soon as I have one.

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Mr Mustard
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 19:18
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I think the answer is more complicated. The extra 10 minutes during which a PCN cannot be issued is for the paid parking. The PCN was for the following restriction, the no waiting.

Pretty mean PCN though. I think we would have to argue the purposive nature of the extra 10 minutes & spirit of the law. Expect this will have to go to adjudication at 100%


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stamfordman
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 19:24
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Yes we have to bear in mind that several cases have been lost on this change to restriction scenario. London Councils say 2 mins before issue on a yellow line and it could well be that this one was timed at 3 mins because of this.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 19:32
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QUOTE (Mr Mustard @ Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 20:18) *
I think the answer is more complicated. The extra 10 minutes during which a PCN cannot be issued is for the paid parking. The PCN was for the following restriction, the no waiting.

Pretty mean PCN though. I think we would have to argue the purposive nature of the extra 10 minutes & spirit of the law. Expect this will have to go to adjudication at 100%


no the act stipulates paid or free. However the parking is paid but an exemption applies


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Joshmow
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 19:32
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It is mean and on a blue badge, argh. I’ve seen them waiting for time to expire on Blue badges outside Great Ormond street children’s hospital. And caught them lurking outside this hospital, when coming to move the car because the time clock is running out.

Anyway, that’s beside the point, just my little winge.

The guidance actually says for paid and free parking.

Anyway, definitely need a proper picture of the sign, not a drunken one as per the council evidence.

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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 19:41
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I think Mr M is correct that it is more compicated especially if you get someone like Burke as the adjudicator:---
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1507255
Mick
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 20:28
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 20:41) *
I think Mr M is correct that it is more compicated especially if you get someone like Burke as the adjudicator:---
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1507255
Mick


The law is clear though I acknowledge the rouge decisions

(ii)
a period of parking for which no charge is payable as authorised by or under any order made relating to the designated parking place.”


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hcandersen
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 20:41
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The clear prevailing restriction at the time of the contravention was NO WAITING and NO LOADING.

You cannot have a NO WAITING etc. restriction in a parking place, the two are mutually exclusive.

Therefore as the car at the time of the contravention was not 'stationary in a designated parking place' the first limb of the conditions has not been met and the PCN was issued lawfully, is my take.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 23:07
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I prefer the findings of the reviewing adjudicator in this case

2160156249

As a result of a Statutory Declaration/Witness Statement, sworn by the Appellant at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, an Order was made by Northampton County Court cancelling the Charge Certificate but not the original Penalty Charge Notice.
It falls to me now to determine this matter on the evidence both parties presently before me.
There is no dispute as to the whereabouts of vehicle GK13 OPT, at the relevant time, on the material date; namely at a location subject to a restriction denoted by a single yellow kerb delineation.
The Appellant denies liability for the ensuing Penalty Charge Notice on the basis of the prevailing circumstances as stated in her initial written representation.
The evidence upon which the Enforcement Authority rely to substantiate the assertion comprises the certified copy Penalty Charge Notice, and contemporaneous notes made by the Civil Enforcement Officer together with photographic evidence: still frames revealing the said vehicle in situ, and the applicable single yellow line and signage notifying motorists of the restriction.
It is incumbent upon a motorist to consult signage and comply with kerb indications, and to be acquainted with the nature of such restrictions by reference to The Highway Code.
The sign at the location informs both as to the operative hours of the restriction, and the maximum period within which parking is permitted for a specified purpose.
The said vehicle remained in situ for a duration in excess of the permitted maximum.
Evidentially I am satisfied that the contravention occurred, accordingly I refuse this Appeal.

and the review

This case comes before me as a review.

Having considered all the evidence I am satisfied that it is in the interests of justice for me to perform this review.


The evidence is clear that the applicant parked her vehicle in a parking bay which had a single yellow line running through it. the associated time plate indicated that at the time the vehicle was parked the yellow line was not operational but the bay was operating as a parking space that limited the amount of parking time to 10 minutes. The PCN was issued because the vehicle was parked in the bay for 12 minutes.



The PCN alleged that the vehicle was parked in a restricted street. It was not. it was parked in a parking bay that limited the amount of parking time to 10 minutes. The PCN is therefore invalid.



Moreover the decision to issue a PCN and pursue the penalty takes no account of the Deregulation Act 2015 which came into force in April 2015. The Enforcement Authority's own published policy is as follows:

"From 6 April 2015, the Council will be giving a 10 minute grace period to vehicles parked in dedicated parking bays, where a period of permitted parking ends and controls then come into force.

The general idea of this is that if a vehicle is parked legally in a designated parking bay when it is initially parked, then a 10 minute grace period should be given before a parking ticket is issued after it becomes illegally parked.
The Council has already started a 'common sense' approach to kerbside management through its innovative Traffic Marshals scheme.
The 10 minute grace period applies in parking bays in the following instances;
-at the start of controlled hours when the bay reverts from being uncontrolled to controlled-upon expiry of a paid for session during controlled hours-upon expiry of a permitted ‘free’ parking period during controlled hours (eg a maximum stay)"The Enforcement Authority has failed to follow its own guidance and the PCN should not have been issued.


I therefore conclude that the review (and appeal) must be allowed.



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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 06:33
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Does the no loading restriction require kerb blips?

The OP needs to submit a challenge--either a full blooded one that the 10 minute rule applies or seeking discretion (late back to car because?). Either way I still think the PCN is very harsh.

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 06:38
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hcandersen
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 06:55
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@PMB:
Your quoted decision refers to the following facts:

The PCN was issued because the vehicle was parked in the bay for 12 minutes.

The PCN alleged that the vehicle was parked in a restricted street. It was not. it was parked in a parking bay that limited the amount of parking time to 10 minutes. The PCN is therefore invalid.


I don't know how this relates to the OP's circumstances.

The regs seem pretty clear, the debates we've seen relate to when 'designation' ceases.

where a vehicle is stationary in a designated parking place and the vehicle has been left beyond the permitted parking period.
(3) No penalty charge is payable


So in order to rely on the 10-minute rule it is necessary to examine whether at the time of the contravention the vehicle was 'stationary in a designated parking place'.

IMO, it was not and this would be an adj's starting point given the mutually exclusive restrictions. The OP might be lucky and the traffic order could be flawed, but is it worthwhile risking the discount on this point?
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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 07:55
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I don't disagree with hca but Decisions have gone the other way.This one is Camden too and relates to a suspension when a no waiting/no loading restriction kicks in and it went to Review:-
2170123723

I heard from Mr Pedro, the partner of the appellant at a hearing today.
The appellant makes several points about the validity of the suspension of this bay.
In the first place it is said that Ms MacDougall and Mr Pedro both parked the car together for the last time before the Christmas festivities on Christmas Eve in this bay immediately outside the lowrise flats where they live. It remained there until 6 January when the Penalty Charge Notice was issued. They are adamant that there was no suspension warning sign there on that day nor on any of the days upon which they walked past the bay over the Christmas period. The first that they were aware that there had been a suspension was when they discovered that the car had been removed, and they noticed the yellow suspension sign on the post some 3 or 4 vehicle lengths away. I found Mr Pedro an honest witness and gave weight to his evidence that there was no yellow suspension sign erected up to 14 days before the date of the suspension itself, as claimed by the Authority.
I have considered the officer's record as to the suspension, on which the council relies for the assertion that the suspension sign was indeed erected 14 days prior to 6 January. I note that the wording of the record is not in terms conclusive of the fact that a sign had been erected – it merely seems to confirm that an order for suspension had been made. To that extent therefore and taken together with the persuasive evidence of Mr Pedro I conclude that there is some confusion about when the suspension sign was in fact erected.
I also take into account Mr Pedro's evidence that during this period there were multiple suspensions erected over a period of time in this street and for short periods. It is in those circumstances well within the bounds of likelihood that the keeping track of the suspensions and necessary signage had become difficult.

There is force in the argument that the officer should have allowed a 10 minute period of grace before issuing the Penalty Charge Notice, in line with Section 2 of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General (Amendment) Regulations 2015. This is the provision which applies where a vehicle is stationary in a designated parking place and been left beyond the permitted parking period. The crucial element is that the initial parking must have been lawful. In this case a course it was, at the time the vehicle was left the suspension was not actually in force, even if there is debate about when the warning sign was erected. The suspension came into force at 8 AM on the morning of 6 January and the PCN was issued at 8:02 AM. In the circumstances I conclude that the issue of this PCN was not compliant with the requirements of the "10 minute grace period" regulations and that the appeal could be allowed on that basis.

A final point is on the wording of the sign itself. The appellant points out that it was imprecise, referring to the suspended spaces in relation to the numbers of properties on the opposite side of the street. This can be contrasted with a sign relating to a later suspension (one of the series) in the same bay, a photograph of which was produced by Mr Pedro and which refers to property numbers on the side of the street on which the bay is situated.

And the review

This is an application for review by the Enforcement Authority on the basis that the original Adjudicator has erred in law.
In effect, Enforcement Authority ground is that the original Adjudicator should not have held that Regulation 4(3) of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, as inserted by Regulation 2 of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General (Amendment) Regulations 2015, that no penalty charge is payable for the contravention where the vehicle has been left beyond the permitted parking period for a period not exceeding 10 minutes, does apply.
The Enforcement Authority submit that when a bay is suspended, as was the position in this present case, the prevision cannot apply.
In many cases it will not and certainly will not if the vehicle is parked after the suspension comes into force.
In this case the suspension came into force at 08:00 and the Penalty Charge Notice was issued at 08:02.
The vehicle was in a resident parking bay for which it was assigned a resident parking permit. The owner had paid to park their vehicle in the bay by purchasing the permit. It is irrelevant whether it is a physical or virtual permit. Regulation 4(4)(b) of the 2007 Regulations, as amended therefore applies because a period of parking that had been paid for as authorised by or under any order made relating to the designated parking place and that period ended at 08:00.
Considering the submission before me carefully I find no ground for review of the original Adjudicator’s decision, which therefore stands.
Mick

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hcandersen
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 09:40
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No, with respect MMV this is to misunderstand the nature of a suspension.

A parking place may be suspended, but it does not de-designate the bay, it's like Catch 22: the bay has to be designated in order for it to be suspended, therefore suspension cannot de-designate otherwise it couldn't be suspended!
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DancingDad
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 09:44
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QUOTE (Mr Mustard @ Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 20:18) *
I think the answer is more complicated. The extra 10 minutes during which a PCN cannot be issued is for the paid parking. The PCN was for the following restriction, the no waiting.

Pretty mean PCN though. I think we would have to argue the purposive nature of the extra 10 minutes & spirit of the law. Expect this will have to go to adjudication at 100%

Pardon Mr M ????

Please explain cos that is not the way I understand it.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/56...gulation/2/made

OP was parked, lawfully in a designated parking bay right up to the dot of 3pm.
The way the amendment is worded, no PCN can be served within the 10 minute period after the permitted parkng period ended.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 09:48
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