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Appeal Pedestrian Zone PCN - Code 53J, Ground for appeal?
Marie75
post Tue, 7 Apr 2020 - 16:41
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I received a PCN Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone and would like to find out if there are any grounds to appeal.

I was driving and the road ahead was blocked/closed so the only option was to turn left onto a side road. I was trying to work out how I could pick up my route again so turn right into another road (Gunton Road) and subsequently was able to re-join the road to continue my journey.

I was shocked to receive a PCN in the post. Gunton Road is a one-way street and that sign was clear to see but I did not see any signs about it being a pedestrian zone and there were no other advance warnings or indications that this was not a normal residential street (apparently pedestrian for a few hours a day due to school).

It looked like a normal road including the 20 mph speed limit sign on the road. There were no other warning apart from the signs which I didn't see and I feel is too far from the junction so you only see if after having already turned into the road.

Are there any grounds to appeal?

Below I have included the video and photo evidence from the council along with the PCN.

1) Was the council/company who put the road block in place, obliged to put in place diversion signs showing an alternative route as I was effectively lost?
2) Shouldn't the signage showing that it is a pedestrian zone be closer to the junction of the road as the one-way sign is? I honestly did not see the signs, only the one-way sign.

Any advice about appealing would be appreciated.


Video Evidence
PCN Letter
Back of PCN Letter
Signage on the road 1
Signage on road 2

This post has been edited by Marie75: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 - 20:51
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 7 Apr 2020 - 17:10
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Post the PCN lets have a look to see if it is compliant. The signs are


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Marie75
post Tue, 7 Apr 2020 - 17:30
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Sorry, I had difficulties uploading the photos.
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stamfordman
post Tue, 7 Apr 2020 - 17:39
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Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like as space on forum is limited.

We've seen these Merton school street PCNs a few times now and unless there is a fault on the PCN it may be best to pay the discount.

School streets with timed restrictions are springing up all over London now so you have to be on the look out for any new signage.
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Marie75
post Tue, 7 Apr 2020 - 20:28
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 7 Apr 2020 - 18:39) *
Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like as space on forum is limited.

We've seen these Merton school street PCNs a few times now and unless there is a fault on the PCN it may be best to pay the discount.

School streets with timed restrictions are springing up all over London now so you have to be on the look out for any new signage.


Thanks for recommending imgbb worked a treat!

I've attached the links the PCN and the photo of the road and signage.

I have no idea about fault on the PCN, if you know of anything please do let me know.

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 7 Apr 2020 - 18:10) *
Post the PCN lets have a look to see if it is compliant. The signs are


Thanks I have now posted the pcn letter..

Are you saying the positioning of the signs is fine? I feel that the signs are too far from the junction and therefore you only see them after already having turned into the road plus the one on the right is somewhat obscured by the one way sign.

I will pay at the discounted rate if there are no grounds to appeal but hoping that there are given that as I said, I would not have driven there had the road not been closed.
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Marie75
post Wed, 8 Apr 2020 - 12:41
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I only have TODAY to make reps to ensure the discounted rate, so if anyone is able to advise, I would be grateful.

I have read on other threads about the date of service/notice issue but can't tell whether Merton council have got it wrong on my PCN and/or whether my PCN might be flawed in any way.

I also am unsure if there are any other grounds on which I could appeal, for example, positioning of signage which is set back from the junction so not likely to be seen until you have already turned into the road, the road itself does not look like a pedestrian zone as it is only the case during school hours.

Help please!
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 8 Apr 2020 - 13:03
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QUOTE (Marie75 @ Wed, 8 Apr 2020 - 13:41) *
I only have TODAY to make reps to ensure the discounted rate, so if anyone is able to advise, I would be grateful.

I have read on other threads about the date of service/notice issue but can't tell whether Merton council have got it wrong on my PCN and/or whether my PCN might be flawed in any way.

I also am unsure if there are any other grounds on which I could appeal, for example, positioning of signage which is set back from the junction so not likely to be seen until you have already turned into the road, the road itself does not look like a pedestrian zone as it is only the case during school hours.

Help please!


I have responded to your PM


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Marie75
post Wed, 8 Apr 2020 - 22:15
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Hi Guys,

This is the draft of the appeal I am going to submit in 30 mins so in case anyone can advise:

I am writing to appeal the Penalty Charge Notice XXX. The letter states that there is an alleged contravention of a prescribed order or failure to comply with an indication given by a traffic sign (Failing to Comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian Zone - Code 53J). However, according to THE MERTON (PRESCRIBED ROUTE) (FRINTON ROAD AND GUNTON ROAD) EXPERIMENTAL TRAFFIC ORDER 2019, a restricted route has been created (which would be Code 52) not a Pedestrian Zone.

Please provide the Traffic Management Order which shows that a Pedestrian Zone had been created and was in force on the date of alleged contravention.

As a secondary point, the signage for the Restricted Access is not appropriately positioned. Gunton Road is a one-way street and the one-way sign is positioned at the junction which makes it visible prior to turning into the road; therefore, there is clearly an acknowledgment by Merton Council that it is necessary to provide drivers with adequate warning of road restrictions by placing signs at the junction of the road. However, in relation to the restricted access during certain times, these signs are positioned further back from the junction, such that, by the time they are seen, the driver has already entered Gunton Road. Woodcote Primary School in Croydon are clearly mindful of how signage should be positioned at the junction and angled so that drivers have advance warning prior to entering the restricted road: Street View Of Woodcote Primary School Signs

I hereby argue that my vehicle cannot be in contravention of Code 53J and as such the PCN should be cancelled.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 8 Apr 2020 - 22:28
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QUOTE (Marie75 @ Wed, 8 Apr 2020 - 23:15) *
Hi Guys,

This is the draft of the appeal I am going to submit in 30 mins so in case anyone can advise:

I am writing to appeal the Penalty Charge Notice XXX. The letter states that there is an alleged contravention of a prescribed order or failure to comply with an indication given by a traffic sign (Failing to Comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian Zone - Code 53J). However, according to THE MERTON (PRESCRIBED ROUTE) (FRINTON ROAD AND GUNTON ROAD) EXPERIMENTAL TRAFFIC ORDER 2019, a restricted route has been created (which would be Code 52) not a Pedestrian Zone.

Please provide the Traffic Management Order which shows that a Pedestrian Zone had been created and was in force on the date of alleged contravention.

As a secondary point, the signage for the Restricted Access is not appropriately positioned. Gunton Road is a one-way street and the one-way sign is positioned at the junction which makes it visible prior to turning into the road; therefore, there is clearly an acknowledgment by Merton Council that it is necessary to provide drivers with adequate warning of road restrictions by placing signs at the junction of the road. However, in relation to the restricted access during certain times, these signs are positioned further back from the junction, such that, by the time they are seen, the driver has already entered Gunton Road. Woodcote Primary School in Croydon are clearly mindful of how signage should be positioned at the junction and angled so that drivers have advance warning prior to entering the restricted road: Street View Of Woodcote Primary School Signs

I hereby argue that my vehicle cannot be in contravention of Code 53J and as such the PCN should be cancelled.



fine, lets see what comes back


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Marie75
post Wed, 8 Apr 2020 - 22:32
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 8 Apr 2020 - 23:28) *
QUOTE (Marie75 @ Wed, 8 Apr 2020 - 23:15) *
Hi Guys,

This is the draft of the appeal I am going to submit in 30 mins so in case anyone can advise:

I am writing to appeal the Penalty Charge Notice XXX. The letter states that there is an alleged contravention of a prescribed order or failure to comply with an indication given by a traffic sign (Failing to Comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian Zone - Code 53J). However, according to THE MERTON (PRESCRIBED ROUTE) (FRINTON ROAD AND GUNTON ROAD) EXPERIMENTAL TRAFFIC ORDER 2019, a restricted route has been created (which would be Code 52) not a Pedestrian Zone.

Please provide the Traffic Management Order which shows that a Pedestrian Zone had been created and was in force on the date of alleged contravention.

As a secondary point, the signage for the Restricted Access is not appropriately positioned. Gunton Road is a one-way street and the one-way sign is positioned at the junction which makes it visible prior to turning into the road; therefore, there is clearly an acknowledgment by Merton Council that it is necessary to provide drivers with adequate warning of road restrictions by placing signs at the junction of the road. However, in relation to the restricted access during certain times, these signs are positioned further back from the junction, such that, by the time they are seen, the driver has already entered Gunton Road. Woodcote Primary School in Croydon are clearly mindful of how signage should be positioned at the junction and angled so that drivers have advance warning prior to entering the restricted road: Street View Of Woodcote Primary School Signs


I hereby argue that my vehicle cannot be in contravention of Code 53J and as such the PCN should be cancelled.



fine, lets see what comes back


That's great PastMyBest, thank you! Will let you know.

This post has been edited by Marie75: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 - 22:33
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Marie75
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 10:15
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Hi Guys

My appeal was rejected.

Here is a link containing photos of the PCN, my appeal, their notice of rejection, the traffic management order (which I was advised to request by one of you lovely wise people) as well as the council's photo and video evidence.

Can anyone advise as to whether it is worth me taking this to the adjudicator for the double or nothing gamble or whether I should call it quits and pay the discounted fine.

Thanks in advance.

This post has been edited by Marie75: Sat, 23 May 2020 - 10:17
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stamfordman
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 11:30
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I can only find two cases adjudicated here and both lost but not relevant as one was just for not being notified about the restriction the other on timing.

The sign positioning would seem to be worth testing but it's a gamble.

I'll leave PMB to deal with the TMO issue.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 11:55
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You have until the 15th of June to register your appeal bump in a week or so if you have not heard anything. I will draft an appeal for you


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Mad Mick V
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 12:02
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I would say continue but it's not my money.

You have two good appeal points:-

1) The TMO does not create a pedestrian zone, it creates a prescribed route. Therefore the alleged contravention did not occur;

2) The Council has failed to consider the precise point above.

When it says--- note what you say but that gives no further grounds for consideration--it fetters their discretion and gives a clear "failure to consider" ground.

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Sat, 23 May 2020 - 12:04
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hcandersen
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 12:42
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From the regs:

pedestrian and cycle zone”
an area—
(a)which has been laid out to improve amenity for pedestrians and cyclists; and
(b)to which the entry of vehicles, except pedal cycles, is prohibited or restricted

So where's the 'laid out to improve the amenity for...'.

As far as is shown on the video, pedestrians are still effectively restricted to the pre-existing footway and all that's happened is that two signs have been erected. IMO, as one swallow does not a summer make, so it is with pedestrian and cycle zone signs, even when there are two of them.

Surely this is nothing more than restricted entry for motor vehicles, in fact the NOR says as much.

However, as this would still have caught the OP, I don't think this assists them too much.

And where is the modification on the sign to allow 'residents or Carers(sic) of residents ' to be exempt. (Carers doesn't carry a capital and therefore smacks of a cut and paste job. And as for the tedious details of the council's consultation!)

And where are the advance signs? Self-evidently, if these are not in place then I could not see an adj rejecting an appeal.

And OP, if you carry on pl condense any appeal to the essentials i.e. at ** on *** I was driving along Links Road and turned right into Gunton Road. I was immediate faced with gateway signs indicating a restriction on the entry of motor vehicles at that time but as can be seen in the video neither I nor any other motorist not gifted with clairvoyance could have avoided passing the sign. Also, as I had already passed a 'One Way' traffic sign, even if I had stopped I was forbidden from reversing or executing a 37-point turn in the narrowed carriageway to exit the road in order to avoid passing the restriction signs.

So OP, it's not these signs which are my primary interest, it's the warning one(s) in Links. My GSV doesn't show these signs so, where are they?
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 13:28
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QUOTE
Surely this is nothing more than restricted entry for motor vehicles, in fact the NOR says as much.

However, as this would still have caught the OP, I don't think this assists them too much.


The TMO creates a route restricted to motor vehicles a code 52 contravention so a pedestrian zone contravention did not occur. if he adjudicator agrees then they must allow the appeal. it is a yes or no, not ahh but you committed A contravention



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hcandersen
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 16:08
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And we don't know of any contrary adjudicators who take a slightly less black and white view??

A TMO does not create a zone whether pedestrian or otherwise controlled, it creates restrictions. And if, as in the case of a CPZ, these form a coherent scheme which complies with the definition of a CPZ, then CPZ signs may be used. But the order's citation or intentions do not create the zone.

And so it is with these zones IMO.

The order's citation etc. is not relevant. All that counts is that Article 3 creates a restriction whereby no motor vehicle may proceed in the roads specified during the times specified.

This does not match the definition of Pedestrian and Cycle Zone given in the regs and IMO this is what matters. We don't have to call it 'a prescribed route' ('route: a particular way or direction between places) or anything, because who cares about the why? The restriction applies if a motorist doesn't want to even get to the school.

It's a road which is restricted to all classes of motor vehicles, subject to exemptions, apparently, which does not appear to meet the conditions set out in Schedule 1, Definitions, to the TSRGD.

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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 18:03
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QUOTE
And we don't know of any contrary adjudicators who take a slightly less black and white view??


We wouldn't offer much advice if we could only do so sure that an adjudicator would accept it. Half of the barristers in courts throughout the land would not be there if they knew there argument was doomed

The no motor vehicle sign is there but incorporated into a pedestrian zone sign. The high court have ruled that the two are different. Your reasoning as to why it is not a pedestrian zone is sound but only part of the argument not the be all and end all

If its not a pedestrian zone then the cited contravention cannot stand

I think this is a question of style rather than disagreement on the route to take, which for me should major on the position of the signs


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stamfordman
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 18:35
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What's the difference between all the school streets in Hackney, Islington etc? Hackney actually produced a toolkit for others on this and the example TMO has School Street - Pedestrian and Cycle - in the title but doesn't specify a zone. The substance of the order looks to be the same as Merton's. The contravention we've seen for these is a 53.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IhbBqQso9E...9ukeK8hHdy/view



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Mad Mick V
post Sat, 23 May 2020 - 18:57
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Their intention to form a Pedestrian Zone and even publish guidance on it has failed to manifest itself in a properly drafted TMO.

That said an adjudicator did take a contrary view on one case even though the OP got 8 PCNs cancelled:-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1498451

A poor Decision, the adjudicator was wrong in fact and law IMO.

Mick


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