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Fraudulent PCN from Hackney Council
Sammie Fields
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:22
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Hey folks,

Recently I received a PCN from Hackney Council with images and video of a car that looks SIMILAR to mine going through a no entry road.

I know the car isn't mine because it is of a different colour, and I wasn't in the area at the time.

The image of the number plate is dark and all you can see is the number plate, and the other images and video are in daylight hours.

Update 12:59pm GMT: please see attached images, the close-up of the faded red car is what my car really looks like.
Update 4:40pm GMT: here's the video:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tGn0pQ2OR...WzMY9ZWRlAH4GkT

Update 5:24pm GMT: uploaded more photos of my my car - back, right side, left side, top, close-up of registration plate. NB: reached max upload limit, please use google drive links below:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1o1LXe40xD...3_NZQ8hX2r_AYVD
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1K8fA3OAwx...fmCZx_7JyWqNC9w
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ahFih9TBN-...2okYFIa1vP/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zwL11iDI8g...gyef6hobHz/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13rpsEXwx1-...Y_knmUF3YZ/view

I've responded to these clowns with evidence, but my question is can I take legal action against these bastards for attempted fraud?

Update 5:31pm: Hmmm I take that back re "clowns", "bastards", "attempted fraud"... now that I've had a look at my number plate, it seems it could be that my number plate was cloned, seeing as the image of the number plate from the PCN has "GB" to the left of it (mine does not) and doesn't say "Westgate Honda" like my one does.

Update 5:51pm: Here's the PCN:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15ZhTtQrbSZ...CzDDamT-Gz/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GjrUxzrdN5...HaHutZxaVH/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vX1d70fTFQ...UrNnqNQLMJ/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19rkIwGgF-y...iOJEFk2IkS/view

I appreciate your input.

Thanks,


Sammie

This post has been edited by Sammie Fields: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 17:56
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post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:22
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southpaw82
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:29
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QUOTE (Sammie Fields @ Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:22) *
I've responded to these clowns with evidence, but my question is can I take legal action against these bastards for attempted fraud?

Yes. Whether you'll succeed is another matter (you wouldn't - as it would require proof of fraudulent intent). If you can read the number plate, is it your number plate or not?


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stamfordman
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:35
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A number plate misread is common. A cloned/altered plate is possible but unusual. If there are any bastards it would be those who clone a plate.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:35
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:53
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As tis is in the council section not the flame pit I assume the PCN has not been cancelled and you want help. So post up the documents and the photos both the councils and yours (keep them separate.

We need all of the PCN your challenge and the rejection. Redact only your personal details leave in the reg in the photos thousands see that every day and if its on another cat even more


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Sammie Fields
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 13:05
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Update: I've uploaded the images.

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 07:29) *
QUOTE (Sammie Fields @ Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:22) *
I've responded to these clowns with evidence, but my question is can I take legal action against these bastards for attempted fraud?

Yes. Whether you'll succeed is another matter (you wouldn't - as it would require proof of fraudulent intent). If you can read the number plate, is it your number plate or not?


It is my number plate, but as you can now see in the images, you can't see the number plate in the images where the maroon car is contravening the road signs. In the dark close-up image, the number plate IS my number plate and it's visible.


QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 07:35) *
A number plate misread is common. A cloned/altered plate is possible but unusual. If there are any bastards it would be those who clone a plate.


I doubt it's a cloned plate. If it was, then you'd either be able to see the number plate in the daylight images, or you'd be able to see the maroon car in the close-up image of the number plate.


QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 07:53) *
As tis is in the council section not the flame pit I assume the PCN has not been cancelled and you want help. So post up the documents and the photos both the councils and yours (keep them separate.

We need all of the PCN your challenge and the rejection. Redact only your personal details leave in the reg in the photos thousands see that every day and if its on another cat even more



Hi PASTMYBEST, my apologies, please feel free to move this thread to the flame pit. The PCN hasn’t been canceled, but it hasn't been long since I made my appeal. I doubt I'd need help with this, as it's clearly not my car. If I do end up needing help, then I'll be sure to post up the details.
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stamfordman
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 13:16
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They use the same camera but with a special feature to take the close up of the plate. So whatever that car is in the video it's the one they took the plate from.

is the car in the video clearly not the same make and model? What did you say to the council?
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Neil B
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 13:20
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QUOTE (Sammie Fields @ Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 13:05) *
I doubt it's a cloned plate.

I doubt you're correct.

By chance, did you buy the car in the last 6 months?



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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Sammie Fields
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 14:31
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 08:16) *
They use the same camera but with a special feature to take the close up of the plate. So whatever that car is in the video it's the one they took the plate from.

is the car in the video clearly not the same make and model? What did you say to the council?


Looks like the same make (Honda Civic), the shape of the car looks a little different perhaps because it's from a different year, but the colour is different.


QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 08:20) *
QUOTE (Sammie Fields @ Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 13:05) *
I doubt it's a cloned plate.

I doubt you're correct.

By chance, did you buy the car in the last 6 months?


I bought it 4-5 years ago.
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 14:45
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Looks like Lansdowne Road.

So if you think the VRM has been cloned have you got a crime reference number from the police? If not you could be in line for more penalties.

Mick
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Neil B
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 14:53
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I think a maroon vehicle would be listed as 'red' on a V5, so no reason for police to tug it.

We've seen council images of the back but you've shown us the front??

We've had a few clones here and it's surprising how many differences you can spot.

Good idea to put the vid up here.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 15:23
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What you have shown us so far will not get the council to drop this and to be frank without better identification of differences I doubt an adjudicator would agree with you either

The council will present evidence that a car reg AA 23 bcd was caught by CCTV committing a contravention. You say not me gov the plate has been misread. Possible but not likely but the onus fall on you to prove that it is not your vehicle with the infra red facility to capture plates. More likely a cloned plate we see far more of those than we do misreads

So show us the video and lets have some photos taken from the same angle as the CCTV and give a bit of distance so the colour can be better compared . ATM your one photo looks to be what we would, if a CEO had taken it Fauxtography


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Longtime Lurker
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 16:13
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It's hard to tell from that photo, but I think the car in their picture has a sunroof and yours does not. I think your next move should be to get hold of the CCTV footage and look for differences.
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Sammie Fields
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 16:42
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Thank you all for your responses.

As requested, I've uploaded the video. That's far too dark a red for it to be my car.
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 16:59
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QUOTE (Sammie Fields @ Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 16:42) *
Thank you all for your responses.

As requested, I've uploaded the video. That's far too dark a red for it to be my car.


your probably right about the colour, but its not a sure thing get some photos of the right side and back of your car


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stamfordman
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 17:02
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Also don't worry about your car reg - show us your plate and the council's pic. Or PM me to me and I'll have a look.
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hcandersen
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 17:14
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I've responded to these clowns


In what way are they as you describe?

They read the number plate, which you accept is your VRM; they obtained the keeper's details from DVLA; you acknowledge you are the keeper of a vehicle with that VRM; and you also say 'Looks like the same make (Honda Civic)', therefore DVLA have your car recorded as a Civic.

So what exactly at the point of deciding to issue the PCN had the 'clowns' done wrong?

And as regards 'I wasn't in the area at the time', this is, as you probably know, not the issue. The issue is where was the car?

And presumably you've provided whatever details you have of the car's location in your reps - whether you have hard evidence in support is not the issue, one would have expected an outraged owner to at least say where their car was located at that time.

Anyway, may we see the PCN and your reps pl.
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Sammie Fields
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 18:02
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 10:45) *
Looks like Lansdowne Road.

So if you think the VRM has been cloned have you got a crime reference number from the police? If not you could be in line for more penalties.

Mick


Yes, it seems now from having looked at how my number plate at the back looks different, it likely has been cloned, so I'll be getting in touch with the police.


QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:59) *
your probably right about the colour, but its not a sure thing get some photos of the right side and back of your car


Done! Added to original post (please see Google Drive links).


QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 13:02) *
Also don't worry about your car reg - show us your plate and the council's pic. Or PM me to me and I'll have a look.


Photo of my car's rear plate added to original post, council's pic already up there, the reg number is the same but the plates are different, looks like it's a clone then. Thanks for taking a look.


QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 13:14) *
I've responded to these clowns


In what way are they as you describe?

They read the number plate, which you accept is your VRM; they obtained the keeper's details from DVLA; you acknowledge you are the keeper of a vehicle with that VRM; and you also say 'Looks like the same make (Honda Civic)', therefore DVLA have your car recorded as a Civic.

So what exactly at the point of deciding to issue the PCN had the 'clowns' done wrong?

And as regards 'I wasn't in the area at the time', this is, as you probably know, not the issue. The issue is where was the car?

And presumably you've provided whatever details you have of the car's location in your reps - whether you have hard evidence in support is not the issue, one would have expected an outraged owner to at least say where their car was located at that time.

Anyway, may we see the PCN and your reps pl.


Now that it seems my plate has been cloned, I guess the council doesn't deserve that level of criticism. PCN links added to original post. Thanks.
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hcandersen
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 18:42
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When posting notices, you must leave in all dates/times etc.
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 18:59
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wheels are definitely different


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Longtime Lurker
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 23:51
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The plate in their photo has "GB" and the EU stars on a blue background on the left of the plate.
The one on your car does not.
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