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No Name on PCN
DotCom
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:10
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I rented a vehicle and received a PCN from TFL for parking on pavement. for some sort of reason the PCN has been sent to me under "The Company Secretary". i rent from Hertz on my private name and it seems there is a mistake from Hertz of TFL for not putting my name as the renter.
Is this PCN valid or does it have to have my name?
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post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:10
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stamfordman
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:16
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This is a known glitch with TFL. Is it your address - has the PCN been reissued to you under the Hertz terms (which probably includes an admin fee) but without your name?

Post the PCN. Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like as space on forum is limited.
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DotCom
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 12:18
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yes, it has my address and was reissued by TFL after hertz giving them my info
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 14:30
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See here:-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1490060

Mick
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DotCom
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 17:36
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Thanks for this

so i will send online challenge on the above note.
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 17:49
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Let's have a look at the PCN--leave in everything but your details and the PCN number.

TfL often make mistakes on dates etc and the exact contravention.

If you could get photos from TfL that would be a bonus.

Might as well look for other flaws before you appeal because it will be a camera generated PCN most like.


Mick
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cp8759
post Fri, 27 Mar 2020 - 16:15
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Luke Nolan v Transport for London (2190181937, 04 June 2019)
The Appellant disputes the PCN stating that it was incorrectly addressed to "The company Secretary" and that it is not
possible to determine by the use of the camera the weight or contents of the goods being carried as to whether they required
the use of the vehicle to transport them.In addition the appellant states that he wanted to collect something which was not
ready.

The video evidence does show the driver exiting the vehicle with a large carrier bag and returning a few minutes later without
it. The appellant's evidence is vague as to the contents of the bag and what he claims he was intending to collect. The onus is
on the motorist to prove that they fall within the loading/unloading exemption.

However with regard to the PCN, the local authority say that the words "Company Secretary" were inserted into the PCN in
error but that this should not invalidate the PCN.

I do not agree.

The PCN is a legal document and should be accurate as to its contents and to whom it is addressed, and which should
accord with the registered keepers details at the DVLA. As the addressee is incorrect I find the PCN to be defective and allow
this appeal.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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DotCom
post Sat, 11 Apr 2020 - 23:40
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I challenged the PCN to TFL on the basis above that it was not correctly addressed. I received today a new PCN from TFL with my correct name. I have not recieved any response to the challenge.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 12 Apr 2020 - 08:43
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QUOTE (DotCom @ Sun, 12 Apr 2020 - 00:40) *
I challenged the PCN to TFL on the basis above that it was not correctly addressed. I received today a new PCN from TFL with my correct name. I have not recieved any response to the challenge.


Are the numbers on the PCN te same?


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hcandersen
post Sun, 12 Apr 2020 - 12:16
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OP, we're getting away from the law.

As regards MMV's posted case, it hardly supports your case if the evidence in that case has been correctly summarised in the decision. This is because of this comment:

The PCN is a legal document and should be accurate as to its contents and to whom it is addressed, and which should accord with the registered keepers details at the DVLA. As the addressee is incorrect I find the PCN to be defective and allow this appeal.

In your case, the 'registered keeper details at the DVLA' are irrelevant. Your owner details were supplied by Hertz, and DVLA, like plumage, don't enter into it.

So getting back to the law.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/34...gulation/5/made


But how could we apply this, you still have not posted the PCN but have submitted reps which have been rejected, but do we really know because the NOR has not been posted!

OP, post docs otherwise just pay the discount if it's been re-offered.

Yes, I know it's hard and without subtly, but frankly we need to galvanise you into positive action and if this works, good.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 - 08:02
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 12 Apr 2020 - 12:40
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sun, 12 Apr 2020 - 13:16) *
OP, we're getting away from the law.

As regards MMV's posted case, it hardly supports your case if the evidence in that case has been correctly summarised in the decision. This is because of this comment:

The PCN is a legal document and should be accurate as to its contents and to whom it is addressed, and which should accord with the registered keepers details at the DVLA. As the addressee is incorrect I find the PCN to be defective and allow this appeal.

In your case, the 'registered keeper details at the DVLA' are irrelevant. Your owner details were supplied by Hertz and DVLA, like plumage, don't enter into it.

So getting back to the law.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/34...gulation/5/made


But how could we apply this, you still have not posted the PCN but have submitted reps which have been rejected, but do we really know because the NOR has not been posted!

OP, post docs otherwise just pay the discount if it's been re-offered.


+1 we know nothing ATM so cannot look to the legalities of The first or re issued PCN

Yes, I know it's hard and without subtly, but frankly we need to galvanise you into positive action and if this works, good.



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DotCom
post Sun, 12 Apr 2020 - 19:34
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here is the first PCN i received





This post has been edited by DotCom: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 - 21:37
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DotCom
post Sun, 12 Apr 2020 - 21:39
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then i challenged it that it is not directed to my name.
Yesterday i received in the post the second pcn

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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 13 Apr 2020 - 10:16
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please answer this very important question. Are the PCN numbers the same or different?

Also ask Hertz for a copy of or at least the date of notice of acceptance of representations they would have recieved cancelling the PCN in their name

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 - 10:26


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DotCom
post Mon, 13 Apr 2020 - 14:22
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both numbers are the same. i will ask hertz but can take 14 days to get reply
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 13 Apr 2020 - 14:51
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QUOTE (DotCom @ Mon, 13 Apr 2020 - 15:22) *
both numbers are the same. i will ask hertz but can take 14 days to get reply


So they have a PCN served on the company secretary Number 12345

They have a pCN served on you Numbered 12345

And I would venture if you ask hertz for a copy of theirs it is numbered 12345

They cannot do this Hertz might pay te company secretary might pay and you might pay biggrin.gif

there is nothing in the regulations that covers the council making a mistake with an address realising and so cancelling that PCN and serving a fresh one providing it is to a different person but more so they cannot serve a PCN on two people or legal entities


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DotCom
post Mon, 13 Apr 2020 - 16:23
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Therefore I'm going to fight this one and request an adjudicator decision
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 13 Apr 2020 - 17:00
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QUOTE (DotCom @ Mon, 13 Apr 2020 - 17:23) *
Therefore I'm going to fight this one and request an adjudicator decision


Don't send anything without posting here for review, it is a technical argument tat you do not want to get wrong. Did you receive anything else other than the new PCN?
if so post it


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hcandersen
post Mon, 13 Apr 2020 - 17:04
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I suggest that before you get too carried away, you post your reps. For all I know, these could have not been formatted as reps but simply a request, to which they complied, for a PCN in your name. In the scheme of things, it wouldn't alter the outcome, but let's have all the required evidence pl.

By the way, the date of PCN 1 (22 March) was a Sunday, so it doesn't even get out the starting stalls: the date of issue must be the date it was posted.

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DotCom
post Tue, 14 Apr 2020 - 15:13
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All i wrote in the challenge was that the PCN os not addressed in my name and therefore i am not liable to this contravention.

here is the summary of the process of this PCN

PCN status history
08 April 2020PCN Batched
N/A

07 April 2020On Hold: SUS20 - Enquiry Received (22/04/2020)
N/A

24 March 2020Email dispatched to: ----------@gmail.com Subj Representation receipted
N/A

24 March 2020On Hold: SUS26 - Representation Received
N/A

22 March 2020PCN Batched
N/A

21 March 2020Representation Accepted
TfL has accepted a representation received for this PCN.

13 March 2020Representation submitted Under review
N/A

10 March 2020On Hold: SUS26 - Representation Received
N/A

20 February 2020PCN Batched
N/A
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