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Malborough Road, Islington - 38JL
doubleforlondon
post Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 18:15
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Hello,

I rented a van for the day and did perfectly fine with all types of cameras in Islington until I drove the van back to where I picked it up from. I was chatting with my passenger and ended up going through a 'not for any vehicle other than fire engines' section of the road.

I didn't see the signs at the time and also the car in front of me drove through, naturally followed. It was only until I noticed the typical looking bus lane camera facing me as I drove through... that I realised I was gonna get hit.

Date of Notice: 26/02/2020
Date of contravention: 22/02/2020

The rental company (Ubeeqo) have only just sent me the PCN document today (19/03/2020). Which is well over the 14-days limit for 50% reduction. Their email to me today states:
"As per our terms and conditions, you are liable for any penalty charges you may incur whilst in possession of one of our vehicles.

The cost of this PCN is £65, a £40 administration fee will also be applied to the penalty charge.

Should you wish to dispute this charge, you should reply to this email within 14 days from the date of this notice with your supporting evidence.

If we do not receive a response, we will assume that you accept liability and we will attempt to charge your account."
and some other admin words.


1) Can I at all get out of this PCN? (please see attached document)
2) If I do have to pay, is it the rental companies fault for not emailing me the PCN in time for the 50% discount?


EDIT: The PCN is not addressed to me. It's addressed to the parent company by the looks of it, Europcar. Again, the rental company i used is Ubeeqo (it's hire a car via app)

This post has been edited by doubleforlondon: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 19:18
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post Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 18:15
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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 18:34
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Is the PCN in your name or did the rental company just send you their PCN?
They will probably charge you the full whack £130 +£40 fee.
Any chance of seeing the rental agreement and what you signed as accepting liability?

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 18:39
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 18:37
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There is a procedure that must be followed. The hire company are liable, but providing they filled in correctly a vehicle hire form then they may make representations with a copy of the document and the council, if all is correct transfer liability to you.

I would inform the hire company that they must do this. You will then get a PCN in your name and can pay the discount.

Lets be clear all you can do with a PCN in the hire companies name is pay.

If they do not play ball I would cancel the card you paid on and let them whistle


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doubleforlondon
post Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 18:53
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 18:34) *
Is the PCN in your name or did the rental company just send you their PCN?
They will probably charge you the full whack £130 +£40 fee.
Any chance of seeing the rental agreement and what you signed as accepting liability?

Mick


Not in my name.
Ubeeqo is through an app, like ZipCar. I don't remember signing anything when signing up. But found this online, Ubeeqo links for Rental Terms and Fees/Costs: https://www.ubeeqo.com/en-gb/rental-terms

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 18:37) *
There is a procedure that must be followed. The hire company are liable, but providing they filled in correctly a vehicle hire form then they may make representations with a copy of the document and the council, if all is correct transfer liability to you.

I would inform the hire company that they must do this. You will then get a PCN in your name and can pay the discount.

Lets be clear all you can do with a PCN in the hire companies name is pay.

If they do not play ball I would cancel the card you paid on and let them whistle


Sorry, I don't quite follow.

You reckon I should reply back to them asking for a PCN written in my name, just that?


EDIT: The PCN is not addressed to me. It's addressed to the parent company by the looks of it, Europcar. Again, the rental company i used is Ubeeqo (it's hire a car via app)

This post has been edited by doubleforlondon: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 19:18
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 20:41
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This then is going to be a contractual fight between you and the rental co, because all you can do is pay. You can fight the rental company re the time taken to send you the PCN so they did not mitigate their/your loss and you should only be responsible for the £65 +the £40

You would likely have to go to court for the other £65. Is it worth it


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cp8759
post Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 22:38
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QUOTE (doubleforlondon @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 18:15) *
Should you wish to dispute this charge, you should reply to this email within 14 days from the date of this notice with your supporting evidence.

I would contact them immediately:

QUOTE
Dear Rental company,

As you will see on page 2 of the PCN, box D says this:

We are a vehicle hire firm and at the material time the vehicle was hired under a vehicle hiring agreement and the person hiring it had signed a statement of liability in respect of any penalty charge notice issued in respect of the vehicle during the term of the hiring agreement

I ask that you tick this box and send a copy of the hire agreement to the council, please accept this as my explicit consent to share my personal data with the council for the purposes of GDPR.


Of course, given the rental company has no idea what it's doing there is no guarantee as to the outcome, but there seems to be no point in not giving it a go now that the discount is gone. For all we know the council might mess up the process, or unlawfully transfer the PCN to you at which point you'd win anyway.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 07:47
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Yet another hire company which does s*d all for the admin fee, in fact seems to regard it as bonus.

If they dun to OP for the full whack I would certainly consider chargeback if a credit card was used.

With these web arrangements I doubt the full particulars were obtained which could necessitate a transfer of liability in any event. As per:-

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/2546/schedule/2/made

Mick
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doubleforlondon
post Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 09:35
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UPDATE: I have responded back with the below example response. I will post a new reply to this thread once they communicate back.

Thanks to all who have replied so far. I'm sure there is more help for me needed soon...

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 22:38) *
QUOTE (doubleforlondon @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 18:15) *
Should you wish to dispute this charge, you should reply to this email within 14 days from the date of this notice with your supporting evidence.

I would contact them immediately:

QUOTE
Dear Rental company,

As you will see on page 2 of the PCN, box D says this:

We are a vehicle hire firm and at the material time the vehicle was hired under a vehicle hiring agreement and the person hiring it had signed a statement of liability in respect of any penalty charge notice issued in respect of the vehicle during the term of the hiring agreement

I ask that you tick this box and send a copy of the hire agreement to the council, please accept this as my explicit consent to share my personal data with the council for the purposes of GDPR.


Of course, given the rental company has no idea what it's doing there is no guarantee as to the outcome, but there seems to be no point in not giving it a go now that the discount is gone. For all we know the council might mess up the process, or unlawfully transfer the PCN to you at which point you'd win anyway.

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doubleforlondon
post Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 13:47
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 07:47) *
Yet another hire company which does s*d all for the admin fee, in fact seems to regard it as bonus.

If they dun to OP for the full whack I would certainly consider chargeback if a credit card was used.

With these web arrangements I doubt the full particulars were obtained which could necessitate a transfer of liability in any event. As per:-

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/2546/schedule/2/made

Mick


In the meantime, how would I check for this? You sign up via the app, sending proof of address and driving license only. There was no online signatures etc.

Ubeeqo rental terms: https://www.ubeeqo.com/en-gb/rental-terms

See my previous reply, I have responded to them
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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 14:10
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QUOTE (doubleforlondon @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 13:47) *
In the meantime, how would I check for this?

I think you can be pretty confident the rental company has not gathered the necessary details, but that's besides the point. Just let us know as soon as you reply.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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doubleforlondon
post Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 15:47
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 14:10) *
QUOTE (doubleforlondon @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 13:47) *
In the meantime, how would I check for this?

I think you can be pretty confident the rental company has not gathered the necessary details, but that's besides the point. Just let us know as soon as you reply.


As suggested by another user, I sent:

QUOTE
Dear Ubeeqo,

As you will see on page 2 of the PCN, box D says this:

We are a vehicle hire firm and at the material time the vehicle was hired under a vehicle hiring agreement and the person hiring it had signed a statement of liability in respect of any penalty charge notice issued in respect of the vehicle during the term of the hiring agreement

I ask that you tick this box and send a copy of the hire agreement to the council, please accept this as my explicit consent to share my personal data with the council for the purposes of GDPR.

Kind Regards,
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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 16:40
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QUOTE (doubleforlondon @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 15:47) *
As suggested by another user, I sent:

Yes I know, the other user was me biggrin.gif


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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doubleforlondon
post Thu, 26 Mar 2020 - 10:37
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 16:40) *
QUOTE (doubleforlondon @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 15:47) *
As suggested by another user, I sent:

Yes I know, the other user was me biggrin.gif


I still haven't heard back from them now. Getting concerned as it's well over the pay date now I think.
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cp8759
post Fri, 27 Mar 2020 - 21:31
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QUOTE (doubleforlondon @ Thu, 26 Mar 2020 - 10:37) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 16:40) *
QUOTE (doubleforlondon @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 15:47) *
As suggested by another user, I sent:

Yes I know, the other user was me biggrin.gif


I still haven't heard back from them now. Getting concerned as it's well over the pay date now I think.

Not your problem, you answered the rental company promptly and if (for whatever reason, coronavirus related or not) it fails to mitigate its losses, you cannot be held liable for that. And in fairness the rental company has only had a week, even in normal times I'd suggest 10 days or so before chasing up.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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