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Mobile phone use, £30 fine for having a handsfree.
Michael Gibson
post Thu, 10 Aug 2006 - 10:42
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I was pulled over for trying to connect my mobile phone to my handsfree kit. It was 0045, and the roads were dead, there was one car in view. I was attempting to connect my handsfree to my phone via bluetooth when I was pulled over. I explained to the pfficer that I was not using the phone merely trying to abide by the law and use a handsfree. I have a confirmation from O2 that no calls were made or received, nor were any texts made or received. I also requested that the officer in question wrote in his book the fact that I was not on the phone, it was being held below the level of the window, so the light from it did not shine directly at other drivers, and also the fact that there were no cars on the road other than me and him. Do you think I stand a chance?? Sorry for posting in the wrong place... blush.gif
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post Thu, 10 Aug 2006 - 10:42
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Missdaisy
post Thu, 10 Aug 2006 - 10:59
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Did you get a fixed penalty notice?

check out this thread for the law regarding mobile phones.


http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=12149&hl=


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Michael Gibson
post Thu, 10 Aug 2006 - 11:38
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I did get an FPN, also I am unable to view that link, it states I am unable to view it...
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Missdaisy
post Thu, 10 Aug 2006 - 11:43
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ah just realised the thread is in the members only area.

The relevant bit is this is bit

QUOTE
QUOTE
Since 1 December 2003 it is an offence to use a mobile phone while driving or controlling a vehicle on the road. These prohibitions are set out in the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003 (S.I. 2003, No. 2695), which insert the new Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (S.I. 1986, No. 1078), reg. 110.


and as Andy said;

QUOTE
Any driver caught using a mobile phone may be liable to a £30 fixed-penalty fine (up to £1,000 if the case goes to court) or £2,500 for a driver of a goods vehicle or a vehicle carrying nine or more people, if the case goes to court. Guidance has also been given by the Court of Appeal that anyone found guilty of causing death by dangerous driving by being distracted by using a mobile phone should expect to face a prison sentence of several, perhaps a minimum of six, years. It is also worth noting that 'vehicle' covers all types of vehicles with engines, including motorbikes.


There is nothing about mobile phones having to be in a cradle whilst in a vehicle. I do know that when these regs first came in, the Police mistakenly thought that to be the case and stopped numerous drivers because of this. I remember because I simply couldn't understand how they misread the regs.



Now what this means for you is what they police man describes as using the mobile phone whilst driving. I believe that while you are connecting to a blue tooth you would be looking at the screen and interacting with the phone so the fact you were not calling is probably irrelevant.

I take it you haven't been given any points?


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Michael Gibson
post Thu, 10 Aug 2006 - 11:49
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no, no points, although I did get those notes put in the policeman's notebook. I have a CB in the car and may wish to claim it is that. I could have sworn that it only applied when the phone was held to the head. With my phone, I simply hace to press one button, without removing my eyes from the road to activate the headset.
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MartinHP71
post Thu, 10 Aug 2006 - 12:26
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QUOTE (Michael Gibson @ Thu, 10 Aug 2006 - 12:49) *
no, no points, although I did get those notes put in the policeman's notebook. I have a CB in the car and may wish to claim it is that. I could have sworn that it only applied when the phone was held to the head. With my phone, I simply hace to press one button, without removing my eyes from the road to activate the headset.


IMHO it might be seen from the police mans point of view that you were using the phone (playing with it could still be clased as use) the same way as composing a text message on your lap takes away your concentration but because of being stopped is not sent and therefore no record on bill .. Just playing devils advocate and think it would be hard one to fight.
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Michael Gibson
post Thu, 10 Aug 2006 - 12:35
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Any chance someone could post a link to the respective law that applies here, either direct from HMSO or wherever it is?

Thanks
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thamesvalley
post Thu, 10 Aug 2006 - 12:49
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All the UK acts are here ....
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts.htm

All Secondry legislation is here (Stat Inst)
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/stat.htm

Your gonna have to dig around ...


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g_attrill
post Thu, 10 Aug 2006 - 13:26
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The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20032695.htm


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Blackbird
post Thu, 10 Aug 2006 - 16:12
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Sod it, I am normally one of the most placid people on these forums but this sort of police action really p155es me off.
I want the traffic police back on the road doing what is required - cutting down on the stupid / dangerous behaviour that I see every day of the week.

We have 'Mr Gibson' doing everything to comply with the law and he gets pulled (observation skills lacking perhaps dontknow.gif ).
Looking at this 'logically' you can 'play' with your radio/CD player, heater / ventilation system etc etc and the only reason you can get pulled is for not being in control of your vehicle (or similar) but because the equipment was a phone and there is a specific offence it is a damm easy ticket to dish out.
Personally I would fight, but with a realistic view that I would loose (as always) against the word of a police officer. Then I would go to the press...........but that is just me and as a motorcyclist I really hate car drivers using mobiles!
Even in the new Road Safety Bill no mention is made of the action taken by Mr Gibson.

I realise that N Wales scrambled a light plane, helicopter and god know how many cars to catch a woman eating an apple but that was N Wales!

Another case of ticket issueing to keep the stats correct me thinks!

Regards from 'the grumpy old git'


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bigbad
post Sat, 12 Aug 2006 - 15:26
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I'm a taxi driver and use handsfree allday. I got pulled over a couple of months ago (me thinking because the 88 year old lady in the front passenger seat wasn't wearing her seatbelt). He said to me "were you just on your phone when I first saw you?" I pointed to my phone in the cradle and said that I had been scratching my ear! He moaned on about seeing everyone on their phones when he's off-duty but never sees anyone when in his patrol car. I made sympathetic noises and off he went. No mention of the seatbelt!
Incidently you can use certain radios while on the move but if they perceive you to be completing a complicated maneuver while using it, they will nick you!
I read somewhere that with one button answering and pre-programming you can make hands-free calls on the move?
Might have been the private hire and taxi magazine that keeps us drivers in the know.
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CrossFox
post Sat, 12 Aug 2006 - 17:21
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I do not recall where I saw this information ( on pepipoo somewhere ) it is only an offence to use a mobile phone for interactive communications purposes.

Technically, you can use a camera on a mobile phone as this is not "interactive communicating" - but you cannot ring someone or text them or receive texts.

Connecting to bluetooth is not a form of interactive communicating although it is a means to perform interactive communications ??

Query this with police and see what the reply is. cool.gif


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anton
post Sat, 12 Aug 2006 - 19:54
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Whilst I agree with Blackbird in principle, If I were annoyed by some jumped up gobby little squrt in a jam sandwich. I would pay the £30 and give them hell through some other channel, like the newspaper or a load of FOI requests.

To fight this ticket will take time and risk money. Take a few pictures of them illegaly parked out side the courts and then ask loads of questions. It is far more fun doing the hunting rather than being hunted.


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