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Mobile phone ticket at taxi rank, Mobile phone ticket at taxi rank
BladeS1
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 13:53
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Hi,

My brother has been issued a ticket for having his phone in his hand whilst at the train station taxi rank by the transport police. It’s a single line taxi rank at the train station that goes in a circle, he said the driver infront moves forward and he moved forward one car length with phone in hand stopped and put his handbrake up. Next thing a police officer is issuing him a verbal NIP and took his details. He is expecting a ticket through the post. He acknowledges he should not have had phone in hand but he wasn’t on a call or texting. I personally think it’s harsh. From what I can see the taxi line at the train station isn’t a public road. I’ve just google mapped and the public road stops at the point of entry to the station taxi rank. It’s got two large no entry signs except for taxis so can the police issue the NIP? As I was under the impression they can only issue if it’s a public road.

Thanks

Nikki
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post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 13:53
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southpaw82
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 14:12
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“Public road” forms no part of the offence - it is whether it is a road that matters.

Are you sure it's an NIP, as one isn’t required for that offence.


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BladeS1
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 14:18
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Hi,

I don’t know if it’s classed as a road or not. I think it’s part of the train station land. The police officer took my brothers details didn’t give him anything at the time.

Thanks

Nikki
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The Rookie
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 14:28
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A road is a road, whether is a motorway, a country lane or on railway station land, whether it's maintained at the public expense or not.

From what you say it was a road, so the road traffic enactments apply, however the law requires USE while hand held, although use may not be limited to texting or calling, so what was he doing with it in his hand if it wasn't texting or calling? Noting that saying you are holding your phone for no reason at all doesn't sound plausible.



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BladeS1
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 14:35
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Hi,

He said he was working something out in excel obviously not when he moved the taxi just before when stationary and engine off he’s got a hands free kit the whole system. Offered his phone to the police officer to check he wasn’t texting. The officer said I saw you weren’t using it but you can’t have it in your hand.

I suppose it will be a lesson learnt.

Thanks

Nikki

This post has been edited by BladeS1: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 14:36
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southpaw82
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 14:37
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Nobody has advised that he has committed an offence yet, so don’t be too quick to say “lesson learned”.


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The Rookie
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 14:41
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Well if the officer agrees he wasn't using it then no offence was committed.

Noting that working something out in Excel IS using it, but not for interactive communication.

As such it may be worth contacting the police and pointing out that from the officers own words no offence was committed, they may drop it.

The impact of the offence on insurance premiums isn't something he wants, it may also impact his licencing, so definitely worth a try.

But tell him next time to put it down! That's whenever the engine is running (which can be considered to be driving).



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666
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 14:42
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QUOTE (BladeS1 @ Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 14:35) *
Hi,

He said he was working something out in excel obviously not when he moved the taxi just before when stationary and engine off he’s got a hands free kit the whole system. Offered his phone to the police officer to check he wasn’t texting. The officer said I saw you weren’t using it but you can’t have it in your hand.

I suppose it will be a lesson learnt.

Thanks

Nikki

The officer was wrong. The offence is "using".
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BladeS1
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 15:00
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He was using excel when the engine was off, taxi in front moves shuts the app off he’s got it it one hand moves forward one car length.

He think the NIP will come within 14 days.

Thanks
Nikki
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Logician
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 15:09
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A recent case (DPP v Barreto) has established that it is using the mobile for an interactive communication function that contravenes the law. If your brother was merely holding the phone or using it for any other purpose he may have been unwise, but it was not illegal.


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BladeS1
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 15:27
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Thanks that’s what I thought. He said by the time the officer approached her out phone back in its cradle unwise mistake. I’m assuming the NIP will say was in hand and he canthen appeal it.
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666
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 15:31
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QUOTE (BladeS1 @ Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 15:00) *
He was using excel when the engine was off, taxi in front moves shuts the app off he’s got it it one hand moves forward one car length.

He think the NIP will come within 14 days.

Thanks
Nikki

No NIP is required, as Southpaw has already pointed out. As you've said, he's already been advised verbally (orally). The next thing he'll receive will probably be the offer of a fixed penalty. That may well take longer than 14 days.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 15:37
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Don't wait, he should contact the police now, while it's fresh in the officers mind.

Maybe write a letter, post it on here for review first.


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andy_foster
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 19:37
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From what we have been told, it is clear that he has not committed the offence of driving whilst using a hand-held mobile phone. Before acting on this information it might be prudent to consider that this does not in itself mean that he did not commit some other offence, such as careless driving.

N.B. from what we have been told, it seems far from certain that such an offence would be charged, or have legs, but I would be wary of pointing out that offence X cannot have been committed if it might result in offence Y being charged.


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BladeS1
post Fri, 13 Mar 2020 - 12:29
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Hi all,

My brother had received a conditional offer of fixed penalty notice. £200 and six points for use of a handheld mobile / device whilst using a motor vehicle. It says he can contest the allegation in writing to court but he’s hesitant thinking if they don’t agree he will get a greater fine and penalty points. Is this correct?

It also states at place the name of the train station as I don’t think it’s a named toad because it a single file taxi queuing road.

Thanks

Nikki
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The Rookie
post Fri, 13 Mar 2020 - 12:38
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So what happened when he went back to the Police as suggested?

If he challenges it it will end up in court, fine will be bigger, points won't.

Location is irrelevant, it would provide no defence and even if it potentially could he's well aware of where it happened and hasn't been disadvantaged.


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BladeS1
post Fri, 13 Mar 2020 - 13:02
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He didn’t hear anything back is that normal? Thing is he showed him his phone to show what he was on.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 13 Mar 2020 - 13:06
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Suggest he gets off his derriere and starts chasing it then.....he shouldn't have waited nearly a month!

He can either accept the FP or not, his decision to make.


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TryOut
post Fri, 13 Mar 2020 - 14:17
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 14:41) *
Well if the officer agrees he wasn't using it then no offence was committed.

Noting that working something out in Excel IS using it, but not for interactive communication.

As such it may be worth contacting the police and pointing out that from the officers own words no offence was committed, they may drop it.

The impact of the offence on insurance premiums isn't something he wants, it may also impact his licencing, so definitely worth a try.

But tell him next time to put it down! That's whenever the engine is running (which can be considered to be driving).

I have Office365 on my phone and the Office Suite communicates with teh 365 server when I am manipulating an Excel file so that seems to have significant interactivity.
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BladeS1
post Fri, 13 Mar 2020 - 18:25
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weve got some legal advice and the firm thinks he has a good case so he’s going to contest it.

Thanks for your help
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