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[NIP Wizard] Notice of intention to prosecute - How to respond
Hudl
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 12:05
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - January 2020
Date of the NIP: - 32 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 35 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M602 WESTBOUND, JUNCTION 1 APPROACH
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Having received this letter today, I honestly have no recollection of driving my car on the 10th January, especially at 15:39. I was studying for important exams during that period of time so I have tried to look at text messages from friends and emails to recollect what I was doing around this time and all the evidence seems to be coming back that I was at home studying. So unless they officers have inputted the wrong date or time for the offence I can not admit to being the driver of the vehicle at the date and time mentioned. I have other people who drive my vehicle at times (although rarely) and I have asked them all to which they have all denied too.

I don't know what to do now though in regards to how I should respond to the NIP.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - No
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 12:05:48 +0000
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post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 12:05
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Logician
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 12:13
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Do not reply yet, write and ask for a copy of the photo "to assist in identifying the driver", do NOT say anything else. From the picture you can hopefully see whether in fact if this was your car or not, because it is not unknown for the registration to be read incorrectly and it may be another car altogether. If it is, you can then ask them to check the plate again.


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Hudl
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 12:31
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QUOTE (Logician @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 12:13) *
Do not reply yet, write and ask for a copy of the photo "to assist in identifying the driver", do NOT say anything else. From the picture you can hopefully see whether in fact if this was your car or not, because it is not unknown for the registration to be read incorrectly and it may be another car altogether. If it is, you can then ask them to check the plate again.


Thanks, I just sent an email to the enquiry email along the lines of:

To whom it may concern,

I have received a notice of intention to prosecute today (14/2/2020) as the registered keeper of the vehicle with registration number: XXXXXXX, for the alleged offence of drive a vehicle other than on the carriageway of a motorway. In order to identify the driver of the vehicle at the date and time of the offence, could you please supply me with any form of evidence which may be of assistance to me including any photographic evidence.


I don't think they will have any photographic evidence for the offence allegedly committed.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 12:39
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Why do you think that? What offence is alleged?


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Jlc
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 13:17
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QUOTE (Hudl @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 12:31) *
...for the alleged offence of drive a vehicle other than on the carriageway of a motorway.



Hard shoulder mis-use? It would sound like a pretty memorable event.

QUOTE (Hudl @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 12:31) *
I just sent an email to the enquiry email along the lines of:

We normally advise not to use the word 'evidence' - it will probably not matter though.

Email is not the best approach IMHO - can be totally 'ignored' and doesn't provide you any recourse.

You are to use reasonable diligence to identify the driver upon receiving the request. If you do not know who was driving nor can identify them after the aforementioned diligence then you'll have the opportunity to present a statutory defence at court. It's quite common for potential drivers to have amnesia with such events - but just check again as you are potentially going to court - 6 points, large fine etc.

Personally, I think a bemused phone call might be better - especially if it was a plate mis-read.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 13:18


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Hudl
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 13:42
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 13:17) *
QUOTE (Hudl @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 12:31) *
...for the alleged offence of drive a vehicle other than on the carriageway of a motorway.



Hard shoulder mis-use? It would sound like a pretty memorable event.

QUOTE (Hudl @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 12:31) *
I just sent an email to the enquiry email along the lines of:

We normally advise not to use the word 'evidence' - it will probably not matter though.

Email is not the best approach IMHO - can be totally 'ignored' and doesn't provide you any recourse.

You are to use reasonable diligence to identify the driver upon receiving the request. If you do not know who was driving nor can identify them after the aforementioned diligence then you'll have the opportunity to present a statutory defence at court. It's quite common for potential drivers to have amnesia with such events - but just check again as you are potentially going to court - 6 points, large fine etc.

Personally, I think a bemused phone call might be better - especially if it was a plate mis-read.


Thats the irony of the situation. It is a memorable event and in fact. I was driving yesterday at that junction and there was traffic at junction 1 of the M602 as most vehicles were trying to exit the junction to the right. However, the road was clear to the left which was my exit. I then used the hard shoulder seeing as it seemed stupid for me to be waiting in traffic when I clearly knew that the traffic was for the exit I was not taking. I didnt know this was against the law. When I did this. I got off the motorway and soon after a Nissan car behind me flashed me and waved a badge. I pulled offf to the side of the road to which a officer explained to me what I had done. I went on to explain myself and say I was unaware. They then left me as they were in a rush. This was YESTERDAY though 13/2/2020, the letter I received today is referring to an offence on the 10th January 2020 which I am unaware off.

At least I now know for the future that this is illegal but this doesn't help with what Im goings to do in regards to this NIP.

I have received a reply to the email I sent earlier requesting evidence, and it is as follows:

Dear Sir


I acknowledge receipt of your email. The offence was reported by a third party to Op Considerate. They hold video evidence of the offence but this is only to be used to proof the offence. Not to help ID the driver. The offence was witnessed as the vehicle drove along the hard shoulder to avoid queueing traffic. As the registered keeper of the vehicle you are required to provide the drivers details at the time of the offence. Once the driver has admitted to the offence OP Considerate will release the video evidence. If you cannot provide the driver details the matter will be revered to court for the offence of Failing to Furnish the driver details.

Regards


Obviously like I mentioned earlier, I am pretty sure my car was at home at the date and time of the offence alleged and I am pretty sure I was studying at this point in time also. So I am unsure what to do next.
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Irksome
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 13:50
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Post up a (redacted) copy of the NIP you received.
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Fredd
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 13:53
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QUOTE (Irksome @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 13:50) *
Post up a (redacted) copy of the NIP you received.

Why?


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Irksome
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 13:55
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So we can verify if the OP has somehow made a mistake. It appears the allegation refers to a different incident to the one that occurred yesterday?
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Hudl
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 14:15
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QUOTE (Irksome @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 13:55) *
So we can verify if the OP has somehow made a mistake. It appears the allegation refers to a different incident to the one that occurred yesterday?


No because the NIP offence I received today is dated to jan and not what I received yesterday.

The only reason why I mentioned yesterdays offence was to let the replier know that I was unaware this was even illegal and I have done this before. However, for the date and time mentioned in the NIP I am pretty sure I was at home and so was my vehicle.

QUOTE (Irksome @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 13:55) *
So we can verify if the OP has somehow made a mistake. It appears the allegation refers to a different incident to the one that occurred yesterday?


Ive not made a mistake the allegation is indeed different to the one that occurred yesterday.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 14:43
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Ignorance of the law isn’t going to be a defence.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Logician
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 14:43
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I did ask you not to say anything other than what I said, you have done so and asked for evidence, which you are not entitled to at this stage, so they may refuse your request.


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Hudl
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 14:59
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 14:43) *
Ignorance of the law isn’t going to be a defence.


Yeah Im aware. Still doesn't help with my case considering I am pretty sure I was not the driver and that my car was parked up for the alleged offence committed at the date and time of the NIP.

QUOTE (Logician @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 14:43) *
I did ask you not to say anything other than what I said, you have done so and asked for evidence, which you are not entitled to at this stage, so they may refuse your request.


So what now, if you read their response they were not going to give the video taken by a 3rd party for the purpose of identification of the driver anyway. Only after the driver has been nominated which makes no sense because there was mo driver at that the on that date.
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Jlc
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 15:21
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There's 3 possibilities:
1. It was your car (either you or someone else driving).
2. It wasn't your car (plate misread).
3. It was a 'clone'. (Least Likely)

You can asked them to double check the registration mark. They don't have to supply the video at this stage.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 15:21


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 16:18
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If you are really sure your vehicle was not being driven on that day and at that time, and you know this because you had the only keys, were at x y z location (try location history on your phone, for example) then that would be one response.
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Irksome
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 16:23
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Its possible the dashcam was set to the wrong date / time ...
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Hudl
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 16:50
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 16:18) *
If you are really sure your vehicle was not being driven on that day and at that time, and you know this because you had the only keys, were at x y z location (try location history on your phone, for example) then that would be one response.


Yeah checked my phone which showed I arrived home at 03:41 in the morning on the 9th Jan and doesn't seem to show me being anywhere on the 10th. I am now 99% sure I was at home because I remember the day and the day before. So they definitely got the date wrong. Maybe they saw that offence on a different date but certainly not 10/1/2020.
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Jlc
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 17:05
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Just a caution - proving where you were is not the request nor a defence to a failing to furnish prosecution.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 17:10
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Yes, but stating you had control of the vehicle on x date and were not driving it at the date and time requested is one answer. You cannot state who was driving as noone was.
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Logician
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 17:18
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A misread plate is the most likely reason, particularly if it was a third party video, ask them to re-check the number as you do not believe it was your car.


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