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Italian Speeding Tickets whilst on Holiday - any advice or experience ?, Italian Speeding Tickets whilst on Holiday - any advice or experience
pyroalchemy
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 11:39
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Hi All

Im not sure if this topic is covered in this forum (apologies if its normally just the UK)

Has anyone any experience of Italian speeding tickets ??.. Ive had one through the post from 7 months ago..

At this stage its just a form indicating an offence has been committed - a speeding offence, although it doesn't say what the limit was, and what speed the vehicle in question (a hire car) was actually doing at the time..

A few months back I did receive a 45.00euro bill from the hire company for this, and was advised in the letter from them that at some point (usually within a year) a letter would come through the post..

Any help appreciated ?
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post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 11:39
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Irksome
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 13:54
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Are you intending to go back to Italy in the next few years?
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Logician
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 14:48
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If the Italians want to go through the formal procedure set on an EU basis, they must write to you in English, did they do that?

They are not keen on the formal procedure because any fine collected stays with the UK, so they have taken to using UK debt collectors to write threatening letters. Those can be safely ignored as the debt collectors have no powers and can invoke no procedures.


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baroudeur
post Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 11:34
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QUOTE (Logician @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 14:48) *
If the Italians want to go through the formal procedure set on an EU basis, they must write to you in English, did they do that?

They are not keen on the formal procedure because any fine collected stays with the UK, so they have taken to using UK debt collectors to write threatening letters. Those can be safely ignored as the debt collectors have no powers and can invoke no procedures.


It's not clear whether is it a penalty notice or a debt collection letter. The Cross Border Enforcement Directive (the 'formal' procedure) relates only to the authority sending the penalty notice in the language of the registration document i.e. English.

Recovery of an outstanding penalty is not covered by CBED and it appears that no foreign authorities have, so far, attempted to pursue a penalty in UK courts under other legislation because, as logician stated above, the penalty would be retained by the UK court.


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cp8759
post Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 20:16
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 11:34) *
Recovery of an outstanding penalty is not covered by CBED and it appears that no foreign authorities have, so far, attempted to pursue a penalty in UK courts under other legislation because, as logician stated above, the penalty would be retained by the UK court.

I'm not sure that's right, IIRC something like 50,000+ fines a year are recovered via such proceedings. But I understand it tends to be for more serious offences, like assault, theft, that kind of thing.


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baroudeur
post Sun, 16 Feb 2020 - 11:21
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 20:16) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 11:34) *
Recovery of an outstanding penalty is not covered by CBED and it appears that no foreign authorities have, so far, attempted to pursue a penalty in UK courts under other legislation because, as logician stated above, the penalty would be retained by the UK court.

I'm not sure that's right, IIRC something like 50,000+ fines a year are recovered via such proceedings. But I understand it tends to be for more serious offences, like assault, theft, that kind of thing.


CBED does not relate to enforcement of penalties which can only be through a court procedure in the country of the offender.

" In cases of non-payment of a fine, Member States can follow up according to existing EU rules covering judicial co-operation on cross-border financial penalties. For more information, see:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/criminal/recog...es/index_en.htm.




Are there any links to motoring cases that were transferred from the country of the offence to the country of the offender?


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cp8759
post Fri, 21 Feb 2020 - 20:35
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sun, 16 Feb 2020 - 11:21) *
Are there any links to motoring cases that were transferred from the country of the offence to the country of the offender?

I don't remember how detailed the statistics are, I suspect the Ministry of Justice, CPS or AO's office could tell you.


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No, I am not a lawyer.
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baroudeur
post Mon, 24 Feb 2020 - 11:45
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 21 Feb 2020 - 20:35) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sun, 16 Feb 2020 - 11:21) *
Are there any links to motoring cases that were transferred from the country of the offence to the country of the offender?

I don't remember how detailed the statistics are, I suspect the Ministry of Justice, CPS or AO's office could tell you.



For motoring cases almost certainly none.

As others keep pointing out any penalty recovered by such action remains in the UK system so a pointless exercise to pursue by a foreign authority.
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Fredd
post Mon, 24 Feb 2020 - 12:03
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Mon, 24 Feb 2020 - 11:45) *
As others keep pointing out any penalty recovered by such action remains in the UK system so a pointless exercise to pursue by a foreign authority.

If the purpose of the fines is to punish offenders and motivate them to change their behaviour then it wouldn't be pointless. However it seems that justice comes second to fiscal considerations in this area.


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baroudeur
post Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 11:54
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Mon, 24 Feb 2020 - 12:03) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Mon, 24 Feb 2020 - 11:45) *
As others keep pointing out any penalty recovered by such action remains in the UK system so a pointless exercise to pursue by a foreign authority.

If the purpose of the fines is to punish offenders and motivate them to change their behaviour then it wouldn't be pointless. However it seems that justice comes second to fiscal considerations in this area.


It's not clear what you intend to convey.

Are you implying that people who do not pay foreign penalties put money before morality therefore justice isn't served?

Or are you suggesting that motoring penalties are just a way of raising money for authorities?
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Fredd
post Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 12:49
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Neither. I think my comment was clear enough.


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baroudeur
post Wed, 26 Feb 2020 - 10:55
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 12:49) *
Neither. I think my comment was clear enough.


Thank you for replying but I wouldn't have queried it if it was. As you haven't explained I am still none the wiser. I wonder how others may have interpreted it.
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southpaw82
post Wed, 26 Feb 2020 - 11:15
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Wed, 26 Feb 2020 - 10:55) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 12:49) *
Neither. I think my comment was clear enough.


Thank you for replying but I wouldn't have queried it if it was. As you haven't explained I am still none the wiser. I wonder how others may have interpreted it.

Since you asked, I interpreted it as authorities not pursuing justice because it is not financially viable. So, neither of your propositions.


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Fredd
post Wed, 26 Feb 2020 - 11:29
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 26 Feb 2020 - 11:15) *
Since you asked, I interpreted it as authorities not pursuing justice because it is not financially viable. So, neither of your propositions.

Quite.


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The Rookie
post Wed, 26 Feb 2020 - 11:33
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For what it's worth it seemed crystal clear to me........


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cp8759
post Wed, 26 Feb 2020 - 18:25
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 26 Feb 2020 - 11:33) *
For what it's worth it seemed crystal clear to me........

+1


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baroudeur
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 11:48
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 26 Feb 2020 - 11:29) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 26 Feb 2020 - 11:15) *
Since you asked, I interpreted it as authorities not pursuing justice because it is not financially viable. So, neither of your propositions.

Quite.


Thank you. I can now see your point. Seems that old hands can interpret each other's posts better than I can. wink.gif
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