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PCN from Rotherham Council
Nictastic
post Thu, 13 Feb 2020 - 16:24
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Hi
I received a PCN for parking in a permit bay without clearly displaying a valid permit. I was going to pay it because I know I didn't have any grounds for appeal. However I've contacted Rotherham Council, asking how to apply for a permit. To be told the permit doesn't exist. The land is private property and they are only enforcing on behalf on the land owner. The land owner refuses to issue any permits. Apparently this is the only way they can get around it and the lady I spoke to mentioned something about it been an access road as well. Do you think it's worth appealing? Please see images below. Thank You.







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post Thu, 13 Feb 2020 - 16:24
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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 13 Feb 2020 - 17:01
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Had this place before. There is a parking places order but I haven't seen a permit order.

This is the last case:-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1384992


Mick
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stamfordman
post Thu, 13 Feb 2020 - 17:02
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Council does have a TMO for this but it seems odd:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&a...OIDFbLjruYaplwJ

is this it:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.5015438,-1....3312!8i6656

EDIT - I see MMV has come up with the goods.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 - 17:04
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 13 Feb 2020 - 18:44
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It's the same sign as they admitted was wrong as a reason not to contest an appeal


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cp8759
post Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 11:05
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Let's see the council's photos, you'll find them here https://parking.rotherham.gov.uk/

Last time round the council admitted the signs were wrong so if it's still enforcing based on the old sign, that is wholly unreasonable IMO and you could get an order for costs against the council.

Also, were you parked in a bay?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Nictastic
post Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 20:45
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The sign has changed since the last case. The council have added in No parking on access roads. Also there are no parking bays to park in.
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cp8759
post Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 21:23
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Well I suggest you show us the council photos plus any photos of your own. However the central issue remains regardless of the signage: if there are no bays, the council cannot accuse you of parking in a bay, everything else is secondary.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Nictastic
post Mon, 17 Feb 2020 - 14:36
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This is one of the council photos.
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 17 Feb 2020 - 15:06
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QUOTE (Nictastic @ Mon, 17 Feb 2020 - 14:36) *


This is one of the council photos.


ALL of them use an external hosting site such as imgur


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Nictastic
post Mon, 17 Feb 2020 - 16:20
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Can you not see the photo?

This post has been edited by Nictastic: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 - 16:23
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Nictastic
post Wed, 19 Feb 2020 - 14:43
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The council have rejected my appeal. I would appreciate any help drafting my response. Please see letter below.





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cp8759
post Fri, 21 Feb 2020 - 09:59
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Well the photo of the sign in the letter is the same as we had in the last case. Post a copy of your representation (i.e. whatever it is that you wrote to the council)

Are you the owner of the vehicle and is the V5C in your name? If so, you don't send any response, you wait for the Notice to Owner.

Do not respond to the Notice to Owner without getting our help first, this is a really easy PCN to beat but if you go it alone you risk getting yourself into a muddle.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Nictastic
post Fri, 21 Feb 2020 - 16:35
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This is the e-mail I sent to the council to appeal. It was mostly a copy and paste job from the previous case. I admit I have no idea what I'm doing.

Please accept this as an appeal against the penalty charge on the following grounds that Contravention did not occur.

The contravention on the PCN, Code 85, is an off-street contravention. The vehicle was parked on a road and, although this may be an access road to a specific destination, it is a road nonetheless. Having not passed any signs to indicate being in a car park the contravention code is wrong.

Regardless of the above, whether the vehicle was in a car park or not, the alleged contravention refers to being ‘parked in a permit bay’. As the vehicle was not parked in any sort of bay the alleged contravention did not occur and is unsustainable. Furthermore, for the council to contend that the vehicle was in a parking bay, or to contend that you can be penalised for a parking bay contravention even though the vehicle was nowhere near a parking bay, is wholly unreasonable.

Should parking be prohibited on access roads leading to a car park it is required that appropriate signage, such as double yellow lines, be used. There were no signs capable of creating a no waiting restriction along the entire length of the access road. Even if appropriate signage was visible, the alleged contravention did not occur because the vehicle was not parked in a permit bay, or indeed any other type of bay.

In addition to this, I have spoken to someone in your offices, who have stated that the permit does not exist. If a permit does not exist, how can I be accused of parking without a valid permit?

This post has been edited by Nictastic: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 - 16:35
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cp8759
post Fri, 21 Feb 2020 - 20:16
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Ok so are you the registered keeper? If so, go and get the V5C and double-check that the address is correct, do not assume that it is.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Nictastic
post Fri, 21 Feb 2020 - 21:33
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Yes I am the registered keeper and the address is correct.
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cp8759
post Fri, 21 Feb 2020 - 22:53
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Come back here when you get the Notice to Owner.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Nictastic
post Mon, 30 Mar 2020 - 21:25
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I've finally received the Notice to Owner. I appreciate we are in difficult times but if anyone has the time to help me that would be great. It would be one less thing to worry about.

This post has been edited by Nictastic: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 - 21:26
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 31 Mar 2020 - 09:44
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QUOTE (Nictastic @ Mon, 30 Mar 2020 - 22:25) *
I've finally received the Notice to Owner. I appreciate we are in difficult times but if anyone has the time to help me that would be great. It would be one less thing to worry about.



post it


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cp8759
post Tue, 31 Mar 2020 - 12:48
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Post it up and we'll draft a representation for you.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Nictastic
post Tue, 31 Mar 2020 - 21:57
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/vosstbmxtl3mtis/2...213538.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sopc07it9dn915c/2...213600.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ujus0iypjanc8f/2...213910.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o1hwgsrrc75rd2c/2...213951.jpg?dl=0

This post has been edited by Nictastic: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 - 22:29
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