PPN - Kirkstall Forge railway station car park (Leeds) - Northern Rail Options

[Gavin Fernandes]

Hi...

The driver lives in Leeds and catches the train from Kirkstall Forge to city centre everyday. The driver parks in the railway station car park that is designated for railway users.
On 12.02.2020, when the driver arrived in the car park all of the parking bays were full. In between some of the car parking bays there is a grass section (see pic showing car parked on grass section in between bays).

The driver has seen other cars parked on this grass section before. However, when the driver got back to their car they were greeted with a PCN.

The driver has also taken a pic of the parking sign showing the regulations.










This post has been edited by Gavin Fernandes: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 - 15:55

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[The Rookie]

1/ Put it on the letter, they will likely use it which is just one more nail in any PoFA coffin that may be needed.

2/ Signed by the named keeper. the registered keeper does nothing. (they are two different things).

[Gavin Fernandes]

Should the name of the keeper and signature also go on the letter?

[nosferatu1001]

Sig - just a squiggle. Yes you put the name of the keeper.

[Gavin Fernandes]

Thanks for all your help everyone. I sent the letter today.

[Gavin Fernandes]

Hi,

So the below reply was received. Any advice:


upload photos for free

[The Rookie]

I'd now write and ask them to confirm that as they will only accept appeals from the driver, that they will not therefore be progressing any claim against the keeper.

If they do intend to continue to progress with any claim against the keeper and not only against the driver, then in accordance with the overriding objectives of the 'PRE-ACTION CONDUCT AND PROTOCOLS' laid out in the civil procedure rules they must consider the appeal from the keeper and try and narrow the issues in dispute.

Throw lots of Mud,
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure...-action_conduct

Obviously this is always done 2-3 weeks after each reply so as to spin the matter out.

See what others think.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 07:34

[Gavin Fernandes]

Thank you.

Any one else with any advice?

[Lynnzer]

Thank you.

Any one else with any advice?

Tell them that as they have sent the correspondence to you as the registered keeper you have responded accordingly. Failure by them to consider your very obvious points of law is too dismissive. If they do wish to ask the driver to make the appeal, tell them to find out who it is and write to them but you will not be naming who it may have been, nor is there any legal obligation to do so

[The Rookie]

Erm, it was a windscreen ticket, nothing sent to the registered keeper.

[Gavin Fernandes]

Above letter has now been received.

Key points
- moved to Ireland on April 6
- notified the DVLA at the end of March
- letter came to UK address


Any help would be much appreciated.

[ostell]

Which part of the byelaws requires that the driver must be identified? Is this another porky pie?

I would be tempted to tell them that your adress for service in this matter is the address in Ireland. It is outside the jurisdiction of the UK courts but I'm uncertain of anything in place to take action in Ireland. If you do write ask them which portion of the byelaws requires driver identification

[nosferatu1001]

\they can only apply tot eh DVLA once for an address. So you msut give them your new address for service in Ireland, and state that as this is outside the jurisdiction of the E&W Magistrates COurt, a prosecution would not be possible

Ask them how they are holding the Owner liable, when they were stating the driver must be identified. They cant have it both ways

[Gary Bloke]

Their letter is headed "Debt Recovery". You must inform them that there is no debt. The "penalty" you have received is not a legally enforceable fine. It is merely an offer to avoid a criminal prosecution in a Magistrate's Court. Declining this offer, which you are perfectly entitled to do, does not incur any debt. All their references to "debts" are wholly unwarranted.

Also, am not sure they can claim costs in the event that a Magistrate finds the defendant driver guilty of a Byelaw breach. Perhaps others can confirm this?

[Gavin Fernandes]

Ok thanks for the advice.

Here is the draft letter

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank for your letter dated ....

I am writing to you to inform that I have now emigrated and left the UK. My new address for service is detailed above. This is in Ireland which outside the jurisdiction of the England and Wales Magistrates' Court. Therefore, a prosecution is not possible.

In my previous correspondence to you dated 1 April 2020, it was suggested that you find out who the driver is and write to them accordingly. It is therefore odd that you are holding me liable when you have indicated in previous correspondence that the driver must be identified.

It has also been noticed that your letter dated 7 May 2020 is titled 'Debt recovery...'. I must inform you that there is no debt. The "penalty" that I have received is not a legally enforceable fine.


Let me know your thoughts.

[Jlc]

I wouldn't spell out the jurisdiction assertion.