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PCN - Paid for the wrong location (right next to each other)
mymistake2020
post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 21:02
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Hello,

I would really appreciate some advice please smile.gif

Today I received a PCN from Croydon Council. The PCN is for parking in a spot without a permit or valid pay and display ticket. I have uploaded an image of the PCN.

I work long shifts in Croydon Hospital. I usually park on Meadow view road and I pay using the location code 19957 on Ringgo. This Monday and Tuesday I have parked on Meadow View road and paid for the hours required on the app.

Today, I parked a little further up the road. Silly me. I have uploaded a photo of the parking location. The red X is where I parked today. I usually park on the right hand side of the arrow. I honestly truly had NO idea that past woodcraft road, the road ceases to be Meadow View road and is instead Queenswood avenue! I know it may sound stupid to others, but I honestly did not know. I don't know the area that well and I never really thought that the name of the road would change around a bend.

Today I paid for my parking using the 19957 code for Meadow View road. The code for Queenswood avenue is 19956.

I really want to appeal because it was a genuine stupid mistake and I did actually pay for parking albeit on the road right next to/continuing on from it. I would have no problem paying this ticket if I did not pay for my parking on the app. I just used the wrong code.

Thanks in advance
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post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 21:02
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stamfordman
post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 21:09
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let's see the council's pics. Were you in a bay with sign that has the code or is it on a machine? Did you geo-locate the location using the app?

regardless we would hope Croydon cancels this provided it's a first time as they received the same money for another of their parking bays. Some councils though are bad.

Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like as space on forum is limited.

GSV is old and doesn't have the bays but this is where the roads meet and it's unusual to have this in a. straight line maybe in a back street. You could easily miss those signs if blocked by parked cars.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3921057,-0....6384!8i8192

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 21:13
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mymistake2020
post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 21:24
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 21:09) *
let's see the council's pics. Were you in a bay with sign that has the code or is it on a machine? Did you geo-locate the location using the app?

regardless we would hope Croydon cancels this provided it's a first time as they received the same money for another of their parking bays. Some councils though are bad.

Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like as space on forum is limited.

GSV is old and doesn't have the bays but this is where the roads meet and it's unusual to have this in a. straight line maybe in a back street. You could easily miss those signs if blocked by parked cars.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3921057,-0....6384!8i8192


Here is the PCN pic
https://ibb.co/mHwtmyg

I have circled the sign. It even says location code 19957 which is the code i paid for - see here: https://ibb.co/GPmTP2y

yes that GSV is quite old

This post has been edited by mymistake2020: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 21:24
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stamfordman
post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 21:52
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Well it's not the wrong code (assuming there is no bay divider we can't see on that pic) so the PCN looks to have been given because it is timed at 13.01 and you bought a session at 13.00 so maybe it didn't show up in the system.

Which prompts the question: where were you at 13.00? That's when the car was first observed according to the PCN.

But if that receipt is in order and for the right car reg then you should be OK with this.

Are there more council pics?

Another possibility is you let a session expire and then bought a new one. The receipt also shows 3 hours 59 mins and not 4 hours although it also says 1 pm til 5 pm.

If you has arrived at 9 am and bought 4 hours though you were entitled to a 10 min grace period after expiry.

the sign also has a redundant max stay 8 hours but 8 hours is the time of the restriction.

this may be a case where we won't know why until you challenge and they reply.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 22:08
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mymistake2020
post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 22:23
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 21:52) *
Well it's not the wrong code (assuming there is no bay divider we can't see on that pic) so the PCN looks to have been given because it is timed at 13.01 and you bought a session at 13.00 so maybe it didn't show up in the system.

Which prompts the question: where were you at 13.00? That's when the car was first observed according to the PCN.

But if that receipt is in order and for the right car reg then you should be OK with this.

Are there more council pics?

Another possibility is you let a session expire and then bought a new one. The receipt also shows 3 hours 59 mins and not 4 hours although it also says 1 pm til 5 pm.

If you has arrived at 9 am and bought 4 hours though you were entitled to a 10 min grace period after expiry.

the sign also has a redundant max stay 8 hours but 8 hours is the time of the restriction.

this may be a case where we won't know why until you challenge and they reply.


There is no bay divider that I can see. The road has a long line of bays along the road with no dividers at all. The sign with the location code for meadow view road (the location that I paid for) is directly above my car.

At 1300, I was walking up woodcroft road pressing the submit button on the app. Therefore, my car was behind me. I had barely crossed the road. If I had looked back, I would have seen the ticket man. S/he would have seen me exiting my car but I was in a rush to get to work, so I didn't take a look around, just left my car with my phone in hand.

The receipt is from today and for the right car reg

There are more council pics but honestly, they're all close ups of my car and give no helpful reference to the specific location i parked in. they are close ups of the ticket, my windows and my back number plate. every other photo cuts off the road/surrounding area.

I always buy a ticket from 1pm to 5pm and I buy it at 1pm. The app always reads 3 hours and 59 minutes. I have never received a ticket.
My e-mail receipt from today reads 'start time 1300, end time 1700'.

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stamfordman
post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 22:33
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OK then you should be good to go with a challenge and that receipt. It does look like the CEO checked just before you bought the session. Draft a challenge and post here first. I or someone else will check it.

It is best to always start the session before walking away.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 22:34
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mymistake2020
post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 22:57
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 22:33) *
OK then you should be good to go with a challenge and that receipt. It does look like the CEO checked just before you bought the session. Draft a challenge and post here first. I or someone else will check it.

It is best to always start the session before walking away.


Yes, I have been taught a big lesson today.

Ok thanks! I'm not very good at writing authoritative appeals. This is my first ever PCN.

"Today 12/02/2020 I have been issued with a PCN for parking on 'Queenswood Ave, Thornton Heath' without a valid permit or ticket.

Today, I parked on Meadow View Road. I parked right next to a parking sign (see the photos you have taken - see image 1). I looked up at the parking sign and it said the location code was 19957. This is the same code I have been using to pay for my parking whenever I park on Meadow View Road. Please now refer to your image of my car underneath this parking sign. It states the location code is 19957 which is the location code for Meadow View Road. I used the Ringgo app to pay for parking from 1300 to 1700 for the location code 19957.

I did pay for parking for the correct time, for the correct car registration and for the correct location according to the sign directly above my car. I have uploaded a screenshot of my payment on the Ringgo app and also the e-mail receipt with the same car registration, time from 1300 to 1700 and with the same location code that is on the sign next to where my car was parked."

I know I mention the same thing several times but I really want them to get that I paid for the location code on the sign right next to my car.

This post has been edited by mymistake2020: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 22:58
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Incandescent
post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 23:25
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QUOTE
I know I mention the same thing several times but I really want them to get that I paid for the location code on the sign right next to my car.

Indeed you did, and this is a classic case of how long the payment takes from you pressing the button on your phone through to the CEO having this payment and car recorded on his hand-held terminal. The rule for parking was established a long time ago before Pay-by-Phone was invented, and essentially establishe that time to park the car, go to a ticket machine and get a ticket and return to the car to display it was allowed, but going for change wasn't. In your case, it is reasonable to take your time taken from parking the car to invoking the payment, as being virtually the same as obtaining a parking ticket to display. The only, and fairly key, difference, is that getting tickets from a machine means returning to the car to display, and for most car parks a CEO sees people getting tickets so doesn't issue a PCN.

We have seen OPs who left their car and only invoked PbP parking on their mobile phone when they got to their office and then are surprised to get a PCN !!

In your circumstances, I would appeal this all the way if they are obdurate

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 23:30
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stamfordman
post Thu, 13 Feb 2020 - 09:01
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No reason to get caught up in the location. I would just send this:

Dear Croydon parking,

I wish to challenge PCN xxxxx on the grounds that the contravention did not occur. I had bought a RingGo pay by phone parking session that commenced at 13.00 and the time of the PCN is 13.01.

I enclose a screenshot confirming that a parking session was bought for car VRM xxxxxx at location 19957 starting at 13.00 on 12 February.

I trust that this is sufficient for you to cancel this PCN, which I assume was issued in error because of the closeness in timings of the session and PCN.

Yours
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cp8759
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 21:00
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+1, use stamfordman's draft


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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hcandersen
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 21:29
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We tend to get fixated by RingGo locations.

Frankly, who cares?

Did you or did you not pay the correct parking charge for the location? This has NOTHING to do with RingGo locations, these are administrative matters. The only relevance of the location number is to make checking easier, but this is NOT the issue, did you or did you not pay the correct tariff for the location?
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