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Suspended Bay? Or misleading sign, Ambiguous parking suspension notice
Amit175
post Sun, 9 Feb 2020 - 23:17
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I am appealing a PCN by Croydon Council. I consciously parked in a bay that had a parking suspension notice attached to a wall, towards the rear of the bay with a message "9 bays to the right" with arrow pointing right. The Warden and Council's stage 1 appeal handler believe the bay I was parked in was suspended. I obviously did not think so. I attach a picture of the Bay and the notice taken front on to the notice. Grateful if you can advise on the chances and any tip on how I can put this point across in appeal.


Notice in detail


This post has been edited by Amit175: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 - 23:21
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post Sun, 9 Feb 2020 - 23:17
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stamfordman
post Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 08:47
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Let's see the PCN and all relevant council pics. Also a google street view link of location.

Also yoru challenge and their rejection as you seems to have gone through the first stage.

Croydon seems to like putting suspension signs on fences and not bay signs.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 08:48
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Amit175
post Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 18:32
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Here we go.

Google Maps Link

Council images:
The one below is interesting. It shows at least 4 cars were wrongly parked at the time as 8-9 bays behind mine were suspended. Perhaps the suspension notice was put up with little notice - although I am not sure if that was the case.


Perhaps the only point in the one below is that I had parked towards the front of the bay itself. So the suspension notice was literally at the end of my car, hopefully behind my rear tyres.


The one below was closest to indicating that the notice was some way behind the start of the parking


Also, the suspension notice attached in the first note is a Council picture. All Council pictures are time stamped.

PCN:
I am sorry. I cant find my online representation. Althought I did allege that the contravention did not occur. I mistakenly said that the suspension notice was in the middle of the bay. Also I did say that they should have fixed the notice to the tree if they really wanted to suspend the bay I was in. In hindsight, my appeal was more of a knee jerk reaction. I did follow up the next morning with an email as below.


I attached the front on picture that is in my first post.

Council response:
Pretty bland. Doesnt seem like they genuinely considered what I had to say.
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stamfordman
post Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 18:45
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Well you pointed out the obvious flaw in the wording of the sign and they ignored it.

I would be inclined to continue with this. It also seems that they did not suspend the parking sign so people parking to the right may well not have seen that wall sign. It's a mess and we've seen Croydon do this in another case.

Did you buy a pay and display ticket or are you a resident?

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 18:45
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Amit175
post Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 18:58
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Thank you for your views..

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 18:45) *
Did you buy a pay and display ticket or are you a resident?

I have a resident's permit.
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Incandescent
post Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 19:41
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It's the usual Fob-Off letter. They issue these because, being devious sods, they know that most people will cough-up when they receive it. The wording on the sign is very ambiguous. It is saying that the nine bays to the right of the sign are suspended, i.e the bay in front of the sign is not.
I would take them all the way on this one, but first you must wait for the Notice to Owner and submit reps again, formal this time. Hopefully somebody with half a brain will consider them more carefully and cancel the PCN, but I doubt it, they love the money too much.
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Amit175
post Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 22:19
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 19:41) *
Hopefully somebody with half a brain will consider them more carefully and cancel the PCN, but I doubt it, they love the money too much.


Thanks Incandescent. Read this aloud to my 8-year old, who was in the car with me - when we jointly decided to park it where we did. She found it really amusing. Its her first taste of rip-off local Governments, so this incident has created some self doubt. I wish Councils operated a bit more honourably.
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cp8759
post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 17:34
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QUOTE (Amit175 @ Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 22:19) *
Thanks Incandescent. Read this aloud to my 8-year old, who was in the car with me - when we jointly decided to park it where we did. She found it really amusing. Its her first taste of rip-off local Governments, so this incident has created some self doubt. I wish Councils operated a bit more honourably.

Personally I think you can't lose this case if you take it all the way, even Michael Burke would struggle to say that the sign was adequate. I don't think it's much to do with deliberate rip-offs, I think that for the system to work better the council would need to hire more intelligent people. The local council's parking department is unlikely to attract high flyers though so that would be tricky to say the least.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Amit175
post Thu, 26 Mar 2020 - 12:48
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Complaint resolved at second stage of appeal. Note said “I can confirm that due to the circumstances explained in your letter, the PCN has now been cancelled.”

Thanks for your help.
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