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Disabled Person with Badge PCN Morrisons Parking Eye, PCN received from parking Eye whilst parked at Morrisons
Drei
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 21:43
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Hi,

My mother who is a disabled person has received a penalty charge notice from Parking Eye for parking at Morrisons in a disabled parking bay displaying her blue badge and time/clock card.

The issue I am having with this, is that the letter only states that she stayed at Morrisons for 46 minutes and nothing else, no reason why the PCN was generated. As you can imagine this is extremely upsetting for her, she feel really let down by Morrisons and their parking partner as they targeted her as a disabled person for no valid reason whatsoever. This is the first time something like this has happened to her.

I am uploading a few photos sent via WhatsApp by her, so please bear with me, the quality isn't that great as she found it difficult taking them, bless her. Not to go into too much details but she has a long term disability which is slowly eating at her, her mobility isn't that great and she has her on and off days. On the off days she needs help.

I am finding it very hard to put it any nicely but this is pissing me off very much. Isn't there some kind of disability discrimination rule that they can get hit with? This is immoral, it looks like all they registered was the in and out time, they didn't bother to check the car or the badge that was on the front when we parked or when we left (I forgot it in the window). The car is registered as disabled vehicle for Road Tax and central London access, she can go to the different London Hospitals by car when Hospital Transport is hard to get.

I remember that day as it was the last day I saw her last year when I helped her with her shopping. She was in Hospital for almost two weeks (through Christmas) and was released that day, so I waited for her at home, she wanted to go make some shopping, she didn't have much left in the fridge.
I know for a fact the blue badge was on display and that it was still in the window when we left Morrisons, I drove that day as she wasn't feeling up to it, and had to go back to the car after we got home to collect it (the blue badge and time card).

I can provide any additional information needed.

Thanks,







This post has been edited by Drei: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 21:49
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post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 21:43
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Dave65
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 22:27
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I presume that there was no ticket on windscreen and just PPN through post.
So ANPR would not recognise a BB holder/vehicle.

What is the time limit for the car park?
Best to go back to Morrison's and speak to the MANAGER only not the customer service people.
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Jlc
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 22:30
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The BB has no statutory meaning on private land.

They won't know a disabled person was involved nor that a badge was displayed.

My guess would be that the registration had to registered in store. (a quick google seems a £1 charge is due for up to 2 hours parking - BB holders won't be excluded)

The best action is to contact the store (or head office) to get them to intervene.

The Equality Act requires reasonable adjustments for people with protected characteristics. Without knowing what the breach is it's hard to ascertain whether there has been some form of discrimination (but probably not).

Does the rear of the PCN mention Protection of Freedoms Act?

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 22:33


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Drei
post Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 16:55
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 22:30) *
Does the rear of the PCN mention Protection of Freedoms Act?


No idea, I will need to ask her to check. Problem with disabled people having to go to the pay machine wait in the queue go back to car etc... would be extremely difficult. It also defies the point of them having a blue badge sign stating to display it. I may need to go back and take some photos, I don't recall seeing any ticket machines close to the disabled bays. I think that I recall seeing one close to the entrance and there was a queue.

They sure as hell not making things easy for someone that has mobility problems.
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Jlc
post Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 18:00
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What have Morrison’s said?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Drei
post Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 02:52
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Does anyone know if when Parking Eye is requesting the owner details from DVLA, they get a report showing the tax class for that vehicle?

The reason I am asking is because of this image:


I am curious to understand if at any time they were made aware that the vehicle was registered as Disabled, therefore not paying Road Tax nor Congestion Charge. If this information is being made available to them and they chose to ignore it, it is a different thing, but if they were not made aware then sure... makes sense why they would issue a PCN.
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Drei
post Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 03:06
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I just found this but not sure if it applies:

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Docu...anuary_2018.pdf

26.1 The following vehicles must not be issued with a parking charge notice:

d) vehicles displaying a valid disabled (blue) badge when the landowner provides a concession for disabled people



I guess it depends what you consider concession... disabled parking bays, wheelchairs to use, staff to help, disabled toilette, disabled trolleys, motorised carts etc?

I think that I will just have to ask her, see if the receipt is still around, or check the credit card, not sure if I paid or not as that could be problematic.

This post has been edited by Drei: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 04:07
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The Rookie
post Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 06:39
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QUOTE (Drei @ Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 02:52) *
I am curious to understand if at any time they were made aware that the vehicle was registered as Disabled, therefore not paying Road Tax nor Congestion Charge.

Completely and totally and utterly irrelevant, have you read what you've been told (and what the BB brochure tells you?)

As for the code of practice, yes it applies, but only if there is a relevant concession. So (for example) if the driver is meant to pay even with a BB - but didn't - there is no concession to take advantage of.

So again, what is the alleged breach and what do the signs say, anything else is wasting time until those are known.


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Jlc
post Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 08:46
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Make sure you are reading the latest (or at least the one in effect on the material date) Code of Practice.

That disabled part was changed.

PE would not be aware of any disabled status from the DVLA.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 08:52
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For PE the reason for the issue is stated on the reverse. You have not posted up the reverse of the notice.
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Jlc
post Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 09:16
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The current Disabled parts say:

16.1 The Equality Act 2010 says that providers of services to the public must make ‘reasonable adjustments’ to remove barriers which may discriminate against disabled people.

16.2 ‘Reasonable adjustments’ to prevent discrimination are likely to include larger ‘disabled’ parking spaces near to the entrance or amenities for disabled people whose mobility is impaired. It also could include lowered payment machines and other ways to pay if payment is required: for example, paying by phone. You and your staff also need to realise that some disabled people may take a long time to get to the payment machine.

16.3 Operators of off-street car parks do not have to recognise the Blue Badge scheme. But many choose to do so to meet their obligations under the Equality Act. Although a Blue Badge is not issued to all disabled people it is issued to those with mobility problems. So it is a good way for parking operators to identify people who need special parking provision.

16.4 You are at risk of a claim under the Equality Act if you do not discourage abuse of the ‘disabled’ spaces. This means that you need to make sure the spaces are regularly checked to be sure they are not being used by people who do not have a disability.

19.9 So that disabled motorists can decide whether they want to use the site, there must be at least one sign containing the terms and conditions for parking that can be viewed without needing to leave the vehicle. Ideally this sign must be close to any parking bays set aside for disabled motorists.

QUOTE (Drei @ Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 02:52) *
I am curious to understand if at any time they were made aware that the vehicle was registered as Disabled

Even if they did, only the driver forms any alleged contract and they don't know if they were the disabled person if even if they were present...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ManxRed
post Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 09:16
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Speaking to the manager at Morrisons will likely be the easiest way to kill this. Have you done that yet?


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Jlc
post Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 09:17
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QUOTE (ManxRed @ Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 09:16) *
Speaking to the manager at Morrisons will likely be the easiest way to kill this. Have you done that yet?

^ This (again)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 09:18


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Drei
post Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 13:19
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QUOTE
19.9 So that disabled motorists can decide whether they want to use the site, there must be at least one sign containing the terms and conditions for parking that can be viewed without needing to leave the vehicle. Ideally this sign must be close to any parking bays set aside for disabled motorists.


This isn't visible, the only way to see this is to get out and go near the front door. Also when exiting Morrisons you get your money back if and only if you queue up at the manned tills so that they can give you the money back. If you use the self service till which are faster you don't have this option.


We have found the receipt from that day and is being sorted, but I am still ****** with how difficult they are making life for anyone that has some kind of mobility disability, be that walking cane, wheelchair or any other walking disability.

Honestly, every time a disabled person complained about access or difficulty I never understood nor did I care much. I just thought oh here we go again, though luck, grow up etc. It's funny how when you see if with your own eyes and feel their pain, your perception changes. If life doesn't give people a break, should everyone else do the same? I understand now how difficult it is for anyone trying to defy their disability and not let that make them prisoners.

Morrisons should do a trial run, from a disabled person view and see how easy/difficult it is to follow the exact process as a non-disabled person in order to park and get your money refunded.
I was going to get a dash cam/phone and to a full run of the process, see how easy it is to see the information and follow it when the elements are involved.

The concession is for non-disabled users, as their life is made much easier when shopping at Morrisons, but not the other way around.

@Jlc
The back states that the ticket has been issued because no parking ticket was purchase or by remaining longer than permitted. This means that if you go drop off or pick up someone without parking you will incur a PCN just by going in the car park. I thought this was about parking and not access into the car park. Maybe they should put up a barrier in this case.

Protection of Freedoms Act is mentioned, stating that if you were not the driver you should provide the driver details to ParkingEye and pass the PCN to the driver.

Morrisons have replied (asked for PCN details) and we have also done the appeal with ParkingEye based on being a customer (found the receipt).

This post has been edited by Drei: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 13:37
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Umkomaas
post Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 14:17
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Morrisons always cancel. I've never seen one refused Even fly-parkers have had their tickets cancelled.
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Jlc
post Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 14:40
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Indeed, get the confirmation and then pursue the real issues with them.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Drei
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 12:16
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 14:40) *
Indeed, get the confirmation and then pursue the real issues with them.


Cheers, will do. Once this is sorted I will need to do a test run and see how it goes, from what I have seen and what mum has to do, the whole process is over-complicating things. It is great for all their non disabled customers.

Frankly speaking I don't even know what the solution can be, I realised that if they don't go by the process, people will abuse their stay. Or maybe just have a 2 hours maximum stay then issue a ticket. Like I said, disabled persons getting the **** end of the stick:(
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ostell
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 13:11
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So your PCN has nothing to do with being disabled or not, it is all to do with not paying . Was a payment made?

The BPA CoP does allow for a short period in the car park without a charge being issued.

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Drei
post Fri, 31 Jan 2020 - 03:54
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This post can be archived or deleted since nothing came out of it.

PCN was sorted by Morrisons due to finding the receipt for the time and day. They might have sorted it anyhow even without the receipt. So this one goes out to Morrisons for taking care of it.

This post has been edited by Drei: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 - 04:03
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