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Failed to update new keeper details, no longer have correct info, DVLA failed to update new keeper details.
Twistededge
post Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 12:17
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I know this is my fault for being too trusting. rolleyes.gif

Sold my car 28th October to a 'dealer' who paid cash.

Filled in the paperwork, stuck it in an envelope -- and in my naivety trusted him when he said "I can post that on my way through". rolleyes.gif

I offered him a receipt, I didn't get one in return -- so I now have very sketchy information on who he is. rolleyes.gif

(Like I said, I was naive)

Since then I've had a DVLA notification of an untaxed vehicle.

3 x resident permit PCNS from Haringey (two in the same street)

1 x illegal right turn PCN in Enfield

The only information I have is his first name, his partner's name (she paid a deposit into my bank account via Monzo), the rough area he is, and a phone number that he doesn't respond to. (I actually think he's blocked me on whatsapp)


I contacted the DVLA a couple of weeks ago and told them, and am awaiting a confirmation letter in return -- but they said they can only date the change from when they opened the case.


I've contacted all the local authorities and told them, and am awaiting their response.


Is there anything else I can do to get myself out of trouble, apart from giving myself a good telling off? rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by Twistededge: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 12:29
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post Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 12:17
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DancingDad
post Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 13:33
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What else have you to evidence the deal?
You mention WhatsApp.... any messages relating?
Texts?
Emails?
Anything?
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Twistededge
post Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 13:42
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 13:33) *
What else have you to evidence the deal?
You mention WhatsApp.... any messages relating?
Texts?
Emails?
Anything?

Received call from the 27th Oct
A couple of whatsapp messages relating to him finding his way to mine.
An ongoing list of me sending him copies of the tickets and him ignoring them.
Possibly a screen grab of the original ebay advert.

Googling his phone number brings up a completely different person! ohmy.gif

Haven't yet managed to track down his partner using 192.com / google / facebook


Cancelled my road tax DD immediately, but I didn't cancel my car insurance until I had a new car.

Tempted to pay for an affidavit / statutory declaration at the local county court -- but i'd rather not shell out for anything if I can avoid it.

This post has been edited by Twistededge: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 13:43
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Neil B
post Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 13:56
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QUOTE (Twistededge @ Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 12:17) *
3 x resident permit PCNS from Haringey (two in the same street)

1 x illegal right turn PCN in Enfield

What have you done with these? Dates?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Twistededge
post Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 14:58
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 13:56) *
QUOTE (Twistededge @ Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 12:17) *
3 x resident permit PCNS from Haringey (two in the same street)

1 x illegal right turn PCN in Enfield

What have you done with these? Dates?


They range from Nov 1st to Nov 25th

I only received two initial tickets -- one from Haringey and one from Enfield

I sent a challenge saying I was not the keeper, not the owner and did not know who the owner was.

I had an initial response from Haringey asking me to take a photo of the car to prove it wasn't mine -- like WTF? biggrin.gif I ignored it as I've got more important things to worry about.

I've since had 3 more NTK from Haringey, and I've responded to all of those with the same.

Nothing at all from Enfield yet.


Problem is, if you're not the keeper, you have to tell them who the keeper is -- so I just used the online form to repeatedly say "I do not know" in the various text boxes.


I was hoping for a faster response from the DVLA so I could forward a copy of that, which is why I am now considering an affidavit.


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Neil B
post Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 15:14
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QUOTE (Twistededge @ Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 14:58) *
Problem is, if you're not the keeper, you have to tell them who the keeper is

No, you don't.

QUOTE (Twistededge @ Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 14:58) *
I ignored it as I've got more important things to worry about.

What, like dealing with the bailiffs when they turn up?

What I mean is that you have to keep abreast of these and not miss deadlines, irrespective of what evidence
you have to hand so far.

You're being vague with dates and it now sounds like 5 PCNs.

Compile a list with all relevant dates.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Twistededge
post Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 17:47
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 15:14) *
QUOTE (Twistededge @ Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 14:58) *
Problem is, if you're not the keeper, you have to tell them who the keeper is

No, you don't.

QUOTE (Twistededge @ Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 14:58) *
I ignored it as I've got more important things to worry about.

What, like dealing with the bailiffs when they turn up?

What I mean is that you have to keep abreast of these and not miss deadlines, irrespective of what evidence
you have to hand so far.

You're being vague with dates and it now sounds like 5 PCNs.


Only with the request to send a photo of a car I don't have -- that was beyond bizarre.

I was expecting / hoping that the DVLA would be a bit quicker than they have been -- meanwhile I have a health issue, other financial issues, work and all sorts of other stuff that is equally pressing.

The road tax letter and the NTKs all arrived this week -- and at my first opportunity (today) I came here.

This post has been edited by Twistededge: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 - 17:49
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Twistededge
post Thu, 26 Dec 2019 - 00:16
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A quick update.

Yesterday I informed the police of my dilemma -- I wanted it on record in case the car was used in something serious, such as a crime or an accident. They were fine and understanding and I got a Reference Number.

Then I spent an afternoon doing some other detective work -- googled the guy's number, traced it to a Facebook page. Photos on there matched a house in North London at the same location of the tickets. Reverse searched the postcode, and as such I got an address.

Also remembered that I had a copy of the log book from when I applied for a parking permit, and used that to get the document reference number.

Filled in the transfer online, so now, although late, the car has been re-registered -- although I'm a bit unsure about whether he used his real name as it doesn't match the facebook name. But I've told them what I believe to be true.

Knowing that the guy is a crook doesn't help my anxiety levels -- I'm sure my move will get right up his nose, but what would anyone honestly expect?


I'm kinda expecting the DVLA will either fine me for late transfer, or at least want to know why there's been a two month delay -- but I'd rather be facing that than an onslaught of tickets, or potentially something worse.


Tomorrow, I'll start the task of responding to all the PCNs with the information above -- but I'll do it in writing as their online forms don't give me enough scope to explain; if anyone has got any tips on the best way to word this it would be gratefully appreciated.


This post has been edited by Twistededge: Thu, 26 Dec 2019 - 00:20
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Neil B
post Thu, 26 Dec 2019 - 09:15
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QUOTE (Twistededge @ Thu, 26 Dec 2019 - 00:16) *
I'm kinda expecting the DVLA will either fine me for late transfer, or at least want to know why there's been a two month delay

I doubt it; I think they just generally like to keep records straight and you've now straightened it out.

The tax fine might still stand though.

QUOTE (Twistededge @ Thu, 26 Dec 2019 - 00:16) *
Tomorrow, I'll start the task of responding to all the PCNs with the information above -- but I'll do it in writing as their online forms don't give me enough scope to explain; if anyone has got any tips on the best way to word this it would be gratefully appreciated.

I can't think what long winded story you would want to write?
Some of those on-line 'details' boxes might expand as you type?

Isn't it simply,
'I was not thee owner as I sold the vehicle and here's the proof. Due to the new owner failing to register
the vehicle there has been a delay in DVLA records being updated but this has now been resolved.'

Don't go confusing them with a drawn out story of your investigations. It will detract from the core point.


We still don't know exactly where you are in process.

Dates of postal PCNs or NtOs
Representations so far submitted on?
Replies received on?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Twistededge
post Sat, 4 Jan 2020 - 12:30
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Thank you.

To be honest it all got a bit overwhelming -- I ended up with 8 tickets! 6 from Haringey and 2 from Enfield, all between the 1st and 15th Nov. This has come at a particularly difficult time in my personal life, hence me not being able to keep up with everything.

I had to sit down, go through, and challenge each one, sending off a copy of the change of ownership receipt individually, using the wording above. I'm just hoping they accept the backdated slip and the details I sent them.

I had previously filled in the online appeal form, saying "I do not know" in all the owner detail slots, so hopefully they'll update the new information.


Meanwhile, the man I sold the car too has tried to call me, on the day I received the "no longer the owner" slip -- I missed the call, but assume this means he's got a log book and is doing his nut! I have a feeling he's going to be trouble, because of information I gleaned from my detective work -- if so I'll be straight onto the police.

This post has been edited by Twistededge: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 - 12:31
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Neil B
post Sat, 4 Jan 2020 - 15:20
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QUOTE (Twistededge @ Sat, 4 Jan 2020 - 12:30) *
To be honest it all got a bit overwhelming -- I ended up with 8 tickets! 6 from Haringey and 2 from Enfield, all between the 1st and 15th Nov. This has come at a particularly difficult time in my personal life, hence me not being able to keep up with everything.

I had to sit down, go through, and challenge each one, sending off a copy of the change of ownership receipt individually, using the wording above. I'm just hoping they accept the backdated slip and the details I sent them.

It will take away a large part of the stress just to list each PCN for us -

Date
Type of notice (NtO or PCN)
Your responses to date (and dates)
Any other correspondence (and dates)

This post has been edited by Neil B: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 - 15:21


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Twistededge
post Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 01:57
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OK, well I have appealed all of these already -- both online, and in writing. I had NTOs for all of them.

In the written appeal, I included the following:

A copy of the backdated transfer of ownership document from the DVLA.
A personal letter with a short explanation.
The completed appeal form with new keeper details
The police reference number, after I reported it


I'm not expecting more, but I wasn't expecting these either.

HARINGEY - 30/10/19 -- illegal right turn. This one they responded asking me for a photo of my car to prove I didn't own it. I'll come back to this below. rolleyes.gif


HARINGEY - 1/11/19 Parking in a permit zone -- NTO 9/12/2019

HARINGEY - 1/11/19 Parking in a permit zone -- NTO 09/11/2019

HARINGEY - 07/11/2019 Parking in a permit zone -- NTO 15/12/2019

HARINGEY - 13/11/2019 Parking in a permit zone -- NTO 22/12/2019

HARINGEY - 14/11/2019 Parking in a permit zone --- NTO 23/12/2019



ENFIELD - 14/11/2019 -- illegal right turn -- need to find original letter as I can't find the NTO date

There's another Enfield ticket, but I can't find the paperwork at the moment -- going to have another look in the cold light of day.


======================================================


The response to the first one, from Haringey 30/10/19, asked me to send them a photo, which was clearly impossible -- they then sent me an "after careful consideration" rejection letter, and forms to send of to London Tribunals -- filled that in, and told them pretty much everything I've told you, but by the time it goes to hearing I should be able to gather more evidence.

Thinking...

Slip from DVLA
Print out of my google maps location history for that day
Print out of whatsapp conversation
Print out of original Ebay advert
Sworn affidavit if necessary
Police Reference Number

Anyway, I received the email today, with a hearing scheduled for the 6th Feb


I'll upload everything relevant to this one when I'm more awake, including their nonsensical request for a photo.

This post has been edited by Twistededge: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 02:01
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kernow2015
post Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 08:45
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Is there a possibility that the car will end up being clamped for unpaid PCNs? I know our local council have a policy at their discretion that after XXX unpaid PCNs the car may be clamped.

At least then the guy can't rack up any more.
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Neil B
post Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 12:19
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QUOTE (Twistededge @ Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 01:57) *
HARINGEY - 1/11/19 Parking in a permit zone -- NTO 09/11/2019

I guess that's just a typo - 9/12/2019?


QUOTE (Twistededge @ Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 01:57) *
ENFIELD - 14/11/2019 -- illegal right turn -- need to find original letter as I can't find the NTO date

There's another Enfield ticket, but I can't find the paperwork at the moment -- going to have another look in the cold light of day.

This is one that worries me.
Have you responded to Enfield at all?
The original "letter" is a postal PCN and that IS the NtO.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Twistededge
post Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 12:51
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 12:19) *
QUOTE (Twistededge @ Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 01:57) *
HARINGEY - 1/11/19 Parking in a permit zone -- NTO 09/11/2019

I guess that's just a typo - 9/12/2019?
Yes, December, my mistake

QUOTE (Twistededge @ Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 01:57) *
ENFIELD - 14/11/2019 -- illegal right turn -- need to find original letter as I can't find the NTO date

There's another Enfield ticket, but I can't find the paperwork at the moment -- going to have another look in the cold light of day.
This is one that worries me.
Have you responded to Enfield at all?
The original "letter" is a postal PCN and that IS the NtO.


The appeal form was on the back of the single page letter; I appealed online in a similar vein to Haringey, and then filled in the rear of the NTO, and sent it back with a covering letter, also as above.

The online appeal was a bit more user-friendly than Haringey's, thus allowing me to say "I don't know" a little bit more easily.

I'm pretty sure I photographed the details before I sent them off, but right now can't find them.


The only response, beyond any NTO, for any ticket from either borough, has been the one from Haringey (30/10) that is potentially going to tribunal.




QUOTE (kernow2015 @ Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 08:45) *
Is there a possibility that the car will end up being clamped for unpaid PCNs? I know our local council have a policy at their discretion that after XXX unpaid PCNs the car may be clamped.

At least then the guy can't rack up any more.


I thought it was just bailiffs who clamped cars?

The car is, to the best of my knowledge, now registered to the correct address -- I have reason to believe that, with £1000+ worth of tickets, he will be mightily ****** off, and because my address is on the V5, I've upped my home security a little. Of course, it might not come to this, but I'm erring on the side of caution as 1. he was bloody huge, and 2. information gleaned from social media suggests the potential for trouble.

This post has been edited by Twistededge: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 12:51
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Neil B
post Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 12:58
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Ok, all good.
Given the earlier date of that one perhaps it would be prudent to check the current status - online?

And, sorry to be a pain but have you missed one of the Enfield PCNs from the list?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Twistededge
post Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 13:33
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 12:58) *
Ok, all good.
Given the earlier date of that one perhaps it would be prudent to check the current status - online?


The online form says "this can no longer be challenged" but the payment gateway is allowing me to proceed. I assume from that it's still active.

QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 12:58) *
And, sorry to be a pain but have you missed one of the Enfield PCNs from the list?

You're not being a pain at all -- I appreciate and thank you for the help and apologise for my vagueness. I'm not usually this flaky, but as I said, other important stuff going on that's kept me more than preoccupied. I also expected the DVLA to write back, confirming everything sooner than they did -- waiting around for the evidence was instrumental in my slow action.


There are two from Enfield, but I cannot find the date of the second one -- definitely within the first couple of weeks of November. I have a feeling that I only responded to this by letter, as there's no record in my email history.

Another busy day, but will look more later.

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Twistededge
post Tue, 7 Jan 2020 - 16:37
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I can't find my copies of the Enfield tickets - This is entirely my fault -- I've become swamped with paperwork and got myself into all kinds of a mental state over it. rolleyes.gif


Right now, however, I think it's more important to focus on the one that seems to be going all the way -- I've heard nothing back from any of the others, so unless the postman suddenly deluges me, they're not urgent priority.

I've noticed something interesting...

ALLEGED CONTRAVENTION, HARINGEY - 30/10/19 --this is the first letter of rejection (I appealed to the NTO online stating simply that I do not own the car, and I do not know who the owner is.)




i've circled the bit asking for a photo of my car, because that was the only option they offered (short of paying) and as such I did not know how to answer, or how to send them a photo of a car I don't own -- in all honesty, I was hoping the DVLA would hurry up and send me confirmation in time, which never happened.

A couple of weeks later (can't remember when) I got this -- which also included the tribunal request paperwork:



If you look at the above, the letter is dated the day before the original -- the date is wrong! It says it's been sent out a day before the original rejection notice! huh.gif


I already sent off the tribunal request, and they have given me a date for Feb 6th, but I believe I can send off more evidence ahead of this.

This post has been edited by Twistededge: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 - 16:42
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Neil B
post Tue, 7 Jan 2020 - 17:10
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QUOTE (Twistededge @ Tue, 7 Jan 2020 - 16:37) *
I can't find my copies of the Enfield tickets - This is entirely my fault -- I've become swamped with paperwork and got myself into all kinds of a mental state over it. rolleyes.gif

This is why I got you to write the list. Surely that makes it easier to track.

For the missing Enfield ones I suggest you contact them to see if you can establish the current position -
- and get the PCN numbers - unless you have them?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Twistededge
post Tue, 7 Jan 2020 - 21:53
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Yup, there's one from Enfield that I don't know the date (2 in total). I sent off all the appeals on NYE, so will give them a few days to see what's happening. Interestingly, the Enfield Website seems to let me log in and repeat the appeal process, unlike Haringey.
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