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Blackburn Suspended Parking Bay
MHU
post Mon, 16 Dec 2019 - 14:45
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Hi

I was parked in a bay with a pay and display ticket and back within the time frame. but i did not notice that it had been suspended.

The suspension only came in today at 08:30 and i have parked here before so did not realise it was suspended until after i came back and saw the ticket

The bus was not there when i parked, but was on my return.

Can i do anything to appeal this?

mages - tinypic no longer works .. so is there a better way of getting these up?

https://imgur.com/a/SIls2R3



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post Mon, 16 Dec 2019 - 14:45
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stamfordman
post Mon, 16 Dec 2019 - 15:02
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The suspension sign should be by the parking sign.

The pic of the bus blocking the suspension sign could come in handy but let's see the council's pics. They probably won't be online til tomorrow and you may have to ask for them.

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Mad Mick V
post Mon, 16 Dec 2019 - 16:19
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If all the bays are suspended why wasn't the meter covered by a cowl?

Mick
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MHU
post Mon, 16 Dec 2019 - 17:08
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 16 Dec 2019 - 15:02) *
The suspension sign should be by the parking sign.

The pic of the bus blocking the suspension sign could come in handy but let's see the council's pics. They probably won't be online til tomorrow and you may have to ask for them.


Will check tomorrow

QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Mon, 16 Dec 2019 - 16:19) *
If all the bays are suspended why wasn't the meter covered by a cowl?

Mick



You would expect it to be ... but it was not covered
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cp8759
post Mon, 16 Dec 2019 - 22:23
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Council photos:









No evidence in the council photos that any signage has been contravened.

Known flaws with Blackburn with Darwen Council paperwork include will / may in the NtO and "within" i.e. Al Bar:



Also, the council does not have any authorisation for a parking suspension sign.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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MHU
post Tue, 17 Dec 2019 - 10:10
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Images from Council:

https://imgur.com/U6NQmqn

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 16 Dec 2019 - 22:23) *
Council photos:


No evidence in the council photos that any signage has been contravened.

Known flaws with Blackburn with Darwen Council paperwork include will / may in the NtO and "within" i.e. Al Bar:


Also, the council does not have any authorisation for a parking suspension sign.


How do you suggest i can proceed with this? Appeal will no doubt be rejected

This post has been edited by MHU: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 - 10:11
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cp8759
post Tue, 17 Dec 2019 - 20:56
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Draft representation below, send with copies of https://i.imgur.com/qJooNcC.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/a3Dpabm.jpg

-------------

Dear Blackburn with Darwen Council,

The alleged contravention did not occur. As you can see from the attached photos, my car was parked next to a sign that said "pay at machine", neither the sign nor the pay and display machine were covered up and no parking suspension sign was visible in the immediate vicinity of my car. I saw a sign that indicated the parking bay was available for use and I was entitled to rely on that sign.

I also note the council's photos do not show that the parking suspension was in effect because there is no close up of what I presume the council will say is a parking suspension sign, so it cannot be established that any parking suspension was in effect at the time that my vehicle was parked.

Finally I note there is no parking suspension sign authorised by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016; while many other local authorities have remedied this by obtaining a special authorisation from the Secretary of State, as far as I an ascertain Blackburn with Darwen Council does not have any such authorisation. If the sign bears no similarity at all to any authorised sign, then the issue of substantial compliance does not arise (because to be substantially compliant, a sign must be substantially compliant with something, it cannot be substantially compliant with nothing).

For all of the above reasons, the alleged contravention did not occur and the PCN must be cancelled.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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MHU
post Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 12:48
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Hi

Had this response:

https://imgur.com/rDBGiVt
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stamfordman
post Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 12:56
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Looks like nonsense to me - they have utterly failed to address your challenge and what's this about a notice by the machine? There is a notice on the right hand side of the machine but not readable on pic - but the machine was operational and not cowled off.




This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 13:57
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MHU
post Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 14:23
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Yeah the machine was not cove reed up and the notice is on the side, so was not obvious when getting the pay and display ticket.
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cp8759
post Tue, 14 Jan 2020 - 18:38
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We have a complete and utter failure to consider. The council officer has just copy / pasted paragraph 21A from here http://bit.ly/2DYXGVk into the standard rejection template, there is no evidence that what you've said has been considered in any meaningful way. In short the answer is utter drivel.

I would carry on and wait for the Notice to Owner, in the meantime show us the other page of the rejection.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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MHU
post Thu, 16 Jan 2020 - 11:22
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 14 Jan 2020 - 18:38) *
We have a complete and utter failure to consider. The council officer has just copy / pasted paragraph 21A from here http://bit.ly/2DYXGVk into the standard rejection template, there is no evidence that what you've said has been considered in any meaningful way. In short the answer is utter drivel.

I would carry on and wait for the Notice to Owner, in the meantime show us the other page of the rejection.



So you suggest just wait for the NtO for now
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stamfordman
post Thu, 16 Jan 2020 - 11:32
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Yes wait for NTO. Are you the registered keeper and is the V5C address correct.
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MHU
post Thu, 16 Jan 2020 - 12:14
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 16 Jan 2020 - 11:32) *
Yes wait for NTO. Are you the registered keeper and is the V5C address correct.



yes both are correct
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MHU
post Mon, 3 Feb 2020 - 09:21
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Received This NtO on Friday

https://imgur.com/hqax6uk

https://imgur.com/QSYTUr9
https://imgur.com/4Cg5cEN
https://imgur.com/6oASHJy
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Mad Mick V
post Mon, 3 Feb 2020 - 09:53
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As already noted the NTO will have errors.

The will/may situation occurs and is compounded by a list of the enforcement agents fees which could arise.

The Data Protection statement is wrong since we have the Data Protection Act 2018 and the obligations under that Act which the Council have to the "data subject" have not been explained.

Mick
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MHU
post Mon, 3 Feb 2020 - 11:39
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what next steps shall i follow now on this?
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stamfordman
post Mon, 3 Feb 2020 - 12:04
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You need to draft formal reps to the NTO but there is no rush.

Just itemise the several grounds that have been made and we'll knock it into shape.
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hcandersen
post Mon, 3 Feb 2020 - 14:44
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Can we pl, pl, pl just get the facts clear before, as here, the OP launches into conclusions.

The objective facts are:
The OP parked in the parking place;
The car was situated in the last space in the parking place with its front wheels adjacent to a P&D machine and the rear a clear and not covered wall-mounted sign stating 'P' Pay at Meter, Display Ticket;
The P&D machine was operating and was not cowled.
Signs coloured yellow and stating No Parking.....were situated approx. 4 car lengths behind the car in question and affixed in 2 dimensions on a wall at the rear of the footway.
The authority claim, and rely on as a material factor, that the 'Pay and display machine...notice..suspended..' was displayed clearly but is not in evidence therefore either it doesn't exist, in which case a PI applies, or it does, in which case they must produce in evidence.
There is no evidence that any other traffic sign in the parking place carried a suspension notice.

IMO, that'll do.

And they think this would succeed. My a**e.

https://www.theatresonline.com/shows/cinder...-pantomime-2019

Baron Hardup is played by the Leader of the Council, understudied by the Director of Finance;
The Ugly Sisters are the CEOs;
Cinderella is the driver/owner of the car.
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stamfordman
post Mon, 3 Feb 2020 - 14:54
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Christmas has come very early for HCA.
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