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Harrow Council, Notice of Enforcement station road/Gayton harrow
APJ1
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 21:17
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I have received a Notice of Enforcement with Bailiff threats yet I cannot get through to a human being to discuss the matter. Two letters and PCN for same night in same area which I only drove down once, yet only just received the Enforcement notice and nothing previously, so I was totally unaware of any problem. I don't have the money they are demanding and they do not bother at either the Council or the third party to reply to emails sent to them. 25 minutes waiting for switchboard at the council to answer and they could not direct me to anyone that would listen to me. I was passed from department to department and at the end someone told me to go to Northampton County Court, i dont have the money to pay the fees to apply and i am not qualified for help either. I explained my circumstances, that i have never received a letter before, i am a single mum and 37 weeks pregnant. My car is still under my ex husband's name but i am the only one ever driven it. I am terrified these people coming in my house on friday, in front of my children, emptying my house or trying to take my car (which was involved in an accident 2 weeks ago, as someone hit me from behind) Any advice much appreciated. Thank you.
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post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 21:17
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stamfordman
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 21:33
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Oh dear - you say car is under ex husband's name so presumably he is the registered keeper and letters would have gone to his address? In other words, who has the V5C registration document and what is the address on it?

The owner is liable not the driver. Who owns the car?

Can you post post the notice - take a pic of it and upload it to a site such as https://imgbb.com

juts blank out name and address.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 21:34
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APJ1
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 22:27
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Good Evening,

Thanks for your reply.
The car is registered in V5 under my ex husband's name, but he have never driven the car. I am the second name driver in the insurance. The car is registered in my address but with his name.

https://ibb.co/album/cS0oOv

I hope this is accessible


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stamfordman
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 22:36
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QUOTE (APJ1 @ Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 22:27) *
The car is registered in my address but with his name.

https://ibb.co/album/cS0oOv

I hope this is accessible


Have you got the V5C document - go get it now and check the address on it. Something has gone wrong if you didn't get previous letters. They would have been addressed though to ex, which may be where the problem is.

Whose name is on the notice you have.

The link doesn't work. If you have problems email it to me: marcb@csi.com

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 22:47
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APJ1
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 23:07
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The notice is in my ex's name.
I spoke to him briefly and he reminded me that the address on V5C was changed in late August.
The address after August was the current one, before August it was our old address that we were made aware that we need to change using V5C, after my ex got stopped by a police car. Up to then i thought changing it on my driving licence was ok.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 23:14
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QUOTE (APJ1 @ Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 23:07) *
The notice is in my ex's name.
I spoke to him briefly and he reminded me that the address on V5C was changed in late August.
The address after August was the current one, before August it was our old address that we were made aware that we need to change using V5C, after my ex got stopped by a police car. Up to then i thought changing it on my driving licence was ok.



So - the V5C address is where you are now? But it would have been old address at the date of the contravention? What is that date?

Now - the notice is in your ex's name - this means something.

I'm off to bed soon but I'm sure someone else who knows more than me will be along to help so don't go away and check in tomorrow.

Notice:



This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 23:22
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APJ1
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 23:25
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Yes the V5C is now in my address. At the time of the contravention the car was registered in the old address. the date of the contravention was Feb 15 2019.
I was driving that car that day.
The notice is in my ex's name because the V5C is still under his name. We haven't be apart for long and we haven't short it out the car part yet.
Sleep well and thank you very much for all the advice.
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Neil B
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 23:29
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 23:14) *
Now - the notice is in your ex's name - this means something.

IT means you can't do anything APJ; only your ex can.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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APJ1
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 23:41
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Hello,

Thanks for your reply.

My ex already told them that he wasn't driving the car and he is not liable for it and he has named me as the driver.
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Neil B
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 00:15
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QUOTE (APJ1 @ Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 23:41) *
Hello,

Thanks for your reply.

My ex already told them that he wasn't driving the car and he is not liable for it and he has named me as the driver.

No.
As has been said.
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 21:33) *
The owner is liable not the driver.

Owner is taken to be RK.
You cannot do anything.

Is that all of the notice? No deadline date?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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APJ1
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 00:29
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Deadline is by tomorrow at 6pm, i am doing a lot of research. I dont even know what i have done wrong in these PCNs and i have no way of getting any evidence either. I know though that a lot of motorists have complained for the particular streets.

I found this in the bailiff help forum, tomorrow i am going to CAB and see.

Hi,
I have received a Notice of Enforcement from Newlyn Plc about Non Payment of a Penalty Charge Notice dated over 2 1/2 years ago.
It was a rented car and I had just moved houses, but set up mail redirection promptly.

I did not receive any notice from the council about the PCN or any followup notices about non-payment.
The Notice of Enforcement says I have upto 6th June to pay a sum total of £278 to them or the bailiffs will be sent around.
The PCN is from the London Borough of Harrow, who operate an automated service for Parking Management and hence there isn't anyone available to talk this through either.

Am I liable for payment even though this is the first time I have heard about this?

Please help!

Thanks,
Vaibhav

Reply:

The bailiff company has traced you to your new address and is trying to take an enforcement step.

This behaviour is illegal because the bailiff company knows that CPR 75.7 states:
(7) Where the address of the respondent has changed since the issue of the warrant, the authority may request the reissue of the warrant by filing a request –


Newlyn has done for this before by tracing debtors and taking enforcement steps knowing the address of the debtor has changed, so it knows the enforcement action is fraudulent. It cannot offer a defence of not knowing about CPR 75.7 because their solicitor played that defence on court record.

Phone the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) on 0300 123 1059 and press 6 to skip the robots. Ask for the DATE of the warrant and the respondent's ADDRESS. I expect the address to be an old address proving Newlyn took the law into its own hands and attempted enforcement knowing it might evade being caught out breaching CPR 75.7(7).

When you complete and return the forms to the TEC on tec@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk enforcement stops straight away under the operation of Paragraph 8.1 of Practice Direction 75.

If a bailiff takes an enforcement step after emailing the completed forms to the TEC, the council is liable for everything that follows.

When completing the forms, always attach evidence of the DATE you moved and the ADDRESS. The TEC will roll back the warrant to the original PCN where you can pay the original sum or appeal the contravention based on the evidence given by the council.
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Neil B
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 00:38
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QUOTE (APJ1 @ Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 00:29) *
Am I liable for payment

I'll say again. YOU are not liable. Which bit are you not getting?

If the deadline is tomorrow I can only advise that your ex pay the £278.

The next amount to be added on soon after that is £235, making a total of £513.

If he wants help making an application to the court to reset this, the chances are not good but refer him to
us quickly.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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APJ1
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 04:14
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Hi Neil,

Thank you and the rest for your replies. I do get it.

Thank you.
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Incandescent
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 08:39
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And just to emphasis again...

Who was driving the car at the time is totally irrelevant. Under the legislation passed by Parliament the owner of the vehicle has full responsibility for paying the penalty or appealing it. Unless proved otherwise, the legislation takes the driver named on the V5 as the owner.

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Neil B
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 13:24
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QUOTE (APJ1 @ Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 00:29) *
tomorrow i am going to CAB

I'd be interested to hear what they say.

I do understand it may be difficult to liaise with your ex on this matter but I don't see any choice.

The biggest problem is that you still have the car and that will be the bailiffs prime target.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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APJ1
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 14:53
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Good Afternoon,

I have emailed the Council and through the automated system they told me they are looking at it with a 30 day waiting.
CAB said is good enough to stop the process and ask me to forward this email to the enforcement agency.
We aim to get it back to the original stage to appeal. From the evidence on the Council's website its clear that there is no violation as the right turn on the road markings is clear. The enforcement agency has asked for the owner to confirm in writing that the case can be discuss with me and my ex has emailed them already.

I refuse to pay this fine and i wont (and my ex wont either) as i haven't done anything wrong turning right on this street. The second part of the pedestrian road is a trap as when you turn right you have no choice but to go straight. They Council needs to do their jobs properly and stop ripping off the motorists.

I will keep you updated.
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Neil B
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 15:36
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QUOTE (APJ1 @ Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 14:53) *
I have emailed the Council and through the automated system they told me they are looking at it with a 30 day waiting.
CAB said is good enough to stop the process and ask me to forward this email to the enforcement agency.

WOW !
Which CAB was this?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hcandersen
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 16:18
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OP, for God's sake.....stop it.

Your posts are full of emotion and irrelevancies.

Transfer that emotion to me. Dislike me, but listen and answer any questions promptly.

To recap:

I have received a Notice of Enforcement with Bailiff threats.

No you have not. Nothing is in your name. You are NOT liable now and you will NEVER will be liable, END OF.
The warrant is either made out in his name at his address and passed to you, or his name at your address. When the notice was sent by the agent they PRESUMED that the person named in the warrant lived there.

So stop contacting the council because the more you do the more they'll think that you're fronting for someone who does live there.

My ex already told them that he wasn't driving the car and he is not liable for it and he has named me as the driver.

Big deal. Shame he's ignorant of the law.

So to save me trawling this thread:
You live at address A
Your ex is ex by virtue of a divorce, you therefore have your decree absolute or nisi, yes?
Your ex lives at address B
The notice is made out to whom at what address?
If made out to your ex at address A, then what proof do you have that he does not live at A which is all the presumption the law needs to require the bailiffs to b****r - off. You can show your divorce, but they might want more.

Pl answer/confirm the above now.
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APJ1
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 21:52
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@Neil is St Albans

@hcandersen I am a passionate lady what can i say, its my spartan blood running through my veins.

The house i live in is under my name only and all the bills too. The notice is made out to him in my address and now i know that they cannot come in my property.

However, because the law states the keeper is responsible doesnt mean i let him deal with him on his own. I was driving the car and I am liable in moral principle to do the right thing, no matter if its my ex or not. No one ignores the law.

I think at this point you should really concern more that Harrow Council using the Law as an excuse to rip off the public. The law is in place to serve justice not to allow anyone to use it for misconduct.



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Neil B
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 22:09
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Thanks for the education.

Do make sure you tell us what happens next?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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