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Complicated PCN (Theft involved)
TreyKal
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 19:03
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Hi. I’ve come here on advice from Reddit, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Background:

I had a vehicle on a HP agreement which I no longer needed as I have a company car and left it to my Mother, I kept up the payments on the finance. I also moved out.

Whilst my Mother was at her work, a youth stole her keys from her bag and during his joy ride he amassed 6 PCNs. As I didn’t update my new address all the PCNs were sent to my Mother’s home. She tried to deal with the PCNs without telling me, providing various councils with the crime reference number. 4 dropped their PCNs, Harrow and Brent didn’t. This is when I was made aware of this by WhatsApp by my Mother (she’s also left to Mexico as my Grandmother has fallen ill and I do not have access to her proper). I contacted Harrow and Brent to give them my correct address and the crime reference number directly alongside an email from the Met Police confirming it was stolen. Harrow sent me a notice of rejection to my correct address but subsequently dropped their PCN before my appeal was heard at the tribunal.

Brent on the other hand have sent me a Charge Certificate via email, and the attachment has my incorrect address on it still. As I never received the Notice of Rejection from Brent I plan on this being justifiable grounds for it to be reissued to me at my current address so I can appeal it through the tribunal. My worry is they’ll register the debt at my old address, I’ve sent them emails asking them to confirm to me they’ll register the debt at my current address.

My questions are: what could happen if the debt is registered at the wrong address and what could I do? Is it likely my witness statement will get me the Notice of Rejection reissued to me at my actual address? Surely I can’t be held liable for another person’s crime even if I moved, that’s the bottom line really.

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post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 19:03
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stamfordman
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 19:12
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So you don't have access to your mother's house to pick up post?

What is the Brent PCN for?

Have you had any acknowledgement from Brent - and how did you get the copy of the charge certificate?
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TreyKal
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 19:45
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No, I don’t have a key to the building.
I got a copy from Brent via e-mail with no words, literally a blank email with the charge certificate as an attachment.
The thief got the PCN for entering a pedestrian zone.
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Neil B
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 19:47
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And the date of this Charge Cert is?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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TreyKal
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 19:54
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It’s dated 17/11/2019
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Neil B
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 19:57
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Who is the registered keeper?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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TreyKal
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 19:59
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I am. I know now in hindsight I should have changed it as I wasn’t the primary user anymore.
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Neil B
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 20:10
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QUOTE (TreyKal @ Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 19:59) *
I am. I know now in hindsight I should have changed it as I wasn’t the primary user anymore.

No, that's good! It helps you.

Easy to sort out.
When Brent register the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre you will receive an Order for Recovery.

You can then get this reset. It doesn't matter that you won't actually get the OfR; you only need to know
the debt has been registered.

It can be registered anytime from about now.
So all you do is phone TEC in the next few days and ask if that has happened.
The OfR gives you 21 days to act so you only have to phone TEC every couple of weeks.

Once you know it's registered, you make a Statutory Declaration, using form PE3, to the effect that
'representations made and no rejection received'.

Come back here once you need to use the PE3 and we'll help.
It's very simple but there are few things you must not do - like overcomplicate it.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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TreyKal
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 20:38
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Thank you so much, I will do that.
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Neil B
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 21:21
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TEC 0300 123 1059

Keep us updated every step. You can't afford to get anything wrong.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hcandersen
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 21:44
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??

OP, please be specific. For example, you imply that both the Brent and Harrow PCNs were at the same stage and whereas Harrow 'sent me a notice of rejection', 'Brent on the other hand have sent me a Charge Certificate via email'.

This is impossible. CCs cannot be served by email. And why should they send a CC anyway, you made reps, didn't you? So, where did the NOR go?

Can we pl, pl forget all about the backstory, it's not key. We can delve into it if we need to.

Brent PCN.
For what? Issued by post or to the car?
If postal, were reps made and by whom? If to the car, was a NTO issued and reps made. If so by whom?

I don't think you can simply submit a witness statement or statutory declaration, we don't even know whether any of the grounds applies.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 22:05
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The info you are asking for is already in the thread, HCA.
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hcandersen
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 22:17
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By implication, perhaps. But not clearly stated.

A CC cannot be served by email. So, we have to assume this was only a copy, the original having been sent to the DVLA address.

Assumption is the mother of all c**k-ups in my experience.

But why a CC was sent in the first place has not been addressed.

OP, don't make us guess, deduce or join up dots, just tell us the relevant facts.

I live at address B
I lived at address A, which was registered with DVLA, until ****.
I did not change the registered address until ****.

etc.

Simple bullet points, not rambling narrative!
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DancingDad
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 22:20
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And do make the phone call.
This is last chance to fix this easily, gets right messy if you miss the deadline.
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TreyKal
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 17:42
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I have literally just got home and in the post I have a Notice of Acceptance, Brent have dropped the PCN. I’m stunned. I sent an e-mail to them after I received the CC saying I wouldn’t pay it and I’d be filing a witness statement, I’ll include it in this post if you’re interested in reading it. Thank you all for taking the time to read my post and providing me with advice, I really really appreciate it.

The email that I think got it dropped:

“This is to inform you I will not be making payment.

I will have to lodge a witness statement to the Traffic Enforcement Centre on the grounds I did not receive the PCN, or the Notice of Rejection despite me providing you the correct address on the 23/10/2019 and that you were provided the Crime Reference number several times proving the car was stolen. Included in evidence provided was an email from a Metropolitan Police Officer where the crime reference was also stated.

Taken from the Citizens Advice Bureau’s website:

“You might have got a parking ticket in the post because your car wasn’t parked correctly after it was stolen. You’re not responsible for this ticket, so you should appeal. You'll have been given a crime reference number when you reported the theft to the police. Include the reference number in your appeal as this will prove that you weren’t driving the car when it was wrongly parked. Once you’ve proven you weren’t driving, the notice against you must be cancelled.”

I have not once receive a postal letter to my address at [Current Address] It is only at the Charge Certificate stage that you send me documentation via e-mail with still the incorrect address shown and when I can no longer appeal.

Attempting to bully an innocent member of the public into paying for a PCN incurred by a criminal is not the purpose of a statutory instrument. You are not delegated authority to punish the innocent, this is a case of ultra vires.

The e-mails sent to you prior to this, along with this one and the emails from the Police Officer will be used in my statement. Also note that the Council of Harrow dropped their PCN charge.

I will pursue further legal action for the stress this has caused me. It is not right that you are doing this to me.

If you do not cancel this PCN, ensure you send all further correspondence to my correct address, again it is:

[Current Address]

End email

Note: I won’t actually pursue legal action I doubt I have any case at all, I just threw that in there because I thought it might help get it dropped. I’m just glad it’s over, not changing the registered person was a very costly mistake, the criminal wrote the car off and the insurance didn’t pay out because of that mistake. Paying the PCNs would have been a real kick in the teeth. I have learnt a very valuable lesson.

Thanks again.
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Neil B
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 18:25
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QUOTE (TreyKal @ Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 17:42) *
Citizens Advice Bureau


Please don't swear on the forum laugh.gif

Yes it would be nice to see the NoA.
Well done.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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