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Looking for advice on PE2 and PE3 after PCN issued to old address?
Stonebridge
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 00:04
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Hello - new member here.

I just came home today to find a letter from JBW enforcement agents asking me to pay £406 for a PCN for being in a bus lane, which was apparently issued in June 2019. However I did not recieve any of the noctices from the council as they were sent to an old address.

When I moved house I updated my license with the DVLA, but not my V5C. I didn't realise I had to. I passed my driving test in Feb 2018 and this is my first car - just never read the V5C properly. I understand that this is my fault, however as I did not know about the PCN there is no possible way I could have paid for it in time. In fact in their letter, JBW state "Notices have been issued in accordance with legislation to a previous address".

For this reason I am curently filling out forms PE2 and PE3 to send to the TEC, in the hope that I can simply pay the original £75. However, I am wondering if there is an expert out there that would look over what I have written to ensure I have the best chance of it being approved (with my personal details redacted)?

Thank you for your help.
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Attached File  Form_PE2__for_upload_.pdf ( 274.75K ) Number of downloads: 18
Attached File  Form_PE3__for_upload_.pdf ( 298.81K ) Number of downloads: 18
 
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post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 00:04
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Neil B
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 03:02
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I'm sure you mean £408. Which council?

Nothing really to say at first look, other than the fact you have the forms back to front:
Detail is PE2 not the other way around.

Is the V5 now corrected?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Stonebridge
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 09:10
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Hi Neil, you're right it is £408. Sorry, that was a typo. It's Coventry City Council.

Thank you for you response. I'll switch the statememts around. I'll also make clear that I have only just posted the V5 this morning. I didn't realise I needed to until I got the letter from JBW last night and did some research.

Thanks again. I'll get the PE2 and PE3 signed by a solicitor and send them off. I'll update this forum on the the result to give others information (hopefully with a postive result).
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Stonebridge
post Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 21:28
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Hello again,

I sent off the forms PE2 and PE3 forms, which I had signed at the court, to the TEC. They sent them to Coventry City council after 4 pm the same day, and when I called the TEC the next day they said I should have a judgement on my case in around 2 months. This is what I hoped for, so I was quite optimistic.

Strangely, however, today I have come home to find another letter from JBW enforcement asking for me to pay a 'debt' of £98 plus a 'Compliance stage fee' of £75, which £173 in total? There is no mention of paying for the PCN, but the same PCN number is used in the form as the client reference, so it relates to the incident that is currently on hold. Should Coventry city council not have put all this on hold also?

It also says in their letter than I must pay by 6 am on the 14th Dec or the will visit and seize my belongings. Does anyone have any advice?

Thanks!
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hcandersen
post Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 22:24
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That's because the agents have to serve notices on you, therefore the compliance stage notice, which was sent to your old address, is invalid and cannot support their claim for their costs.

Remember, £98 is the council's, the compliance and enforcement charges, which are greater than the penalty, are the agent's. Therefore, having tracked you down they had to re-serve the compliance notice. Their claim hitherto for £408 was invalid. But now it's £98+£75. However, IMO their compliance notice could also be invalid, it depends on dates and timings. Once the authority were notified by TEC of your OOT all enforcement action had to stop and this includes the agent sending a compliance notice.

Pl give us the date of the most recent letter, in fact pl post it less your personal info.
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Neil B
post Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 03:37
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QUOTE (Stonebridge @ Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 21:28) *
the same day, --------- the next day

When!?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Stonebridge
post Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 10:53
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Thank you for your replies. I have attached the letter I received yesterday (11/12/2019). However, I have just phoned Coventry City Council, and they told me that they put the case on hold with jbw on the 6/12/2019. I phoned jbw, and they confirmed that it is on hold, but that they sent the letter on the 5/12/2019. I can ignore the letter, but find it very surprising that a letter can take 6 days to arrive - they're obviosuly not investing their extorsion money in stamps!

Thanks again - I'll update with the final outcome.
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Stonebridge
post Tue, 7 Jan 2020 - 14:32
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Hello everyone,

As an update, I just received a letter back from the TEC saying my application was refused (attached). In my appeal I provided evidence that I was at a different address at the time of the bus lane violation, and so could not have recieved the PCNs. Maybe I am missing something, but I genuinely don't understand how I can be expected to pay a so much for late payment, when I had no opportunity to pay at the initial rates? From now I will have to pay to appeal further. Do you think this is worth doing? It's frusrating that they do not give a reason for the refusal, as I'd really like to know what that is.

Thanks for all of your help!
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hcandersen
post Tue, 7 Jan 2020 - 15:45
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OP, if it was as simple as any keeper of a motor vehicle keeping DVLA in the dark about their and their vehicle's whereabouts and then playing the 'I did not receive' card when caught out then everyone would do so, TEC would be inundated with statements and declarations and authorities would spend millions of pounds on fruitless administration.

And TEC have difficulty in sorting out the deliberate attempts to keep under the radar from the unwitting.

As you say, ' just never read the V5C properly. I understand that this is my fault'

But at least you should avoid the enforcement fee:

https://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/bailiff-r...egulations-2014

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Neil B
post Tue, 7 Jan 2020 - 16:04
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QUOTE (Stonebridge @ Tue, 7 Jan 2020 - 14:32) *
It's frusrating that they do not give a reason for the refusal, as I'd really like to know what that is.

Coventry have objected to your application. Did they not send you a copy of that objection?

Bear in mind, as HCA points out, you can probably save £235 if you decide to pay quickly.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Stonebridge
post Thu, 16 Jan 2020 - 14:49
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Hello folks,

I just wanted to post a final result for others that may be interested or find themselves in a similar position. After my appeal was rejected by the TEC, I logged on to the JBW website on 10th Jan, using details they gave in their letter, and paid the outstanding balance of £173. I'm not quite sure why the balance reduced from an initial £408 to £173 - perhaps someone else can explain? - but the issue is definitely settled.

Though I'm dissapointed that my appeal wasn't accepted, I'd say to others who are in the same situation that it is definitely worth appealling. It still gave me a bit of extra time to save some money and also reduced the amount I had to pay to JBW.

Though they won't explain why an appeal is rejected, if I could change something about my appeal, I wouldn't admit any fault - as hcandersen quoted in his reply above - but instead agrue solely on the basis that I never received the PCN and therefore could not have paid it.

Hope this has been of some help - good luck!
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Incandescent
post Thu, 16 Jan 2020 - 15:45
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It is not an "appeal" to TEC, just a statement as to why you got an Order for Recovery. If it is In-Time it is automatically accepted, if OOT the council can object and usually do. Unfortunately almost all the court officers at TEC then automatically reject the statement. They really should read the statement and the council objection and come to a decision, but I suspect they just auto-reject, it makes life easier.
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Neil B
post Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 00:47
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QUOTE (Stonebridge @ Thu, 16 Jan 2020 - 14:49) *
I'm not quite sure why the balance reduced from an initial £408 to £173 - perhaps someone else can explain? - but the issue is definitely settled.

When I get a minute.

On 'definitely' I suggest you check the PCN is no longer recorded as live on the council website?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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