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PCN - Leicester, Walnut Street - Event Day
Gavin Fernandes
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 15:03
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Hi,

I was parking on Walnut Street on a Sunday. I have parked there before and the signage on display says that you can park there for up to 2 hours on a Sunday.

However, when I parked there yesterday they had changed the sign. I hadnt realised (you dont often check if you've parked there before). It was changed because it was an Event Day. You'll see there is a padlock where it can be easily changed (I didnt realise this was even a thing).

I hadnt realised it was an Event Day. Apparently Leicester were playing Everton at home on Sunday at 16:30. I thought most football games were on Saturday.

I guess my question is: how was I supposed to know it was an Event Day? Event Day could surely mean anything from football, rugby, concert, etc. There was no signage saying when the Event Day was and what the event was.

I drove further on and went through some side streets and there was signage for some of those roads saying that the Event was for 1 December for the football match. So why have that sign on some streets and not all.

Anyway, any help would be much appreciated.

Gavin







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post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 15:03
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Incandescent
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 15:36
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Hmm, that sign looks rather dodgy to me. Presumably the flap is lowered on match days, but really the full restrictions for that location should be on display permanently, with notices giving the next match day.
Can we see what it says with the flap up, please ?
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 16:11
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 15:36) *
Hmm, that sign looks rather dodgy to me. Presumably the flap is lowered on match days, but really the full restrictions for that location should be on display permanently, with notices giving the next match day.
Can we see what it says with the flap up, please ?


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6247243,-...3312!8i6656

doesn't square with this

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6247243,-...3312!8i6656

but is correct dependent on TRO being amended




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Gavin Fernandes
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 16:13
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Unfortunately not.

This is the best I can do but you can clearly see that there is a sign at the bottom which is normally there. But isnt there on Event Days.
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cp8759
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 20:10
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A motorist parking here for the first time would not know whether it's an event day or not. So, unless there are signs at the entrance to the CPZ that state when the next event day is, the restrictions are not adequately signed and it follows that no contravention occurred.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Gavin Fernandes
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 20:23
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Thank you for all the replies.

So do you think i should appeal? I can't remember any event sign posting on entry to the CPZ.

Not that it makes a difference but every car that was parked where i was had received a PCN.
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 21:19
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hold fire I posted the wrong link at the start of the street is a RPZ sign

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6244375,-...3312!8i6656


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cp8759
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 22:29
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QUOTE (Gavin Fernandes @ Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 20:23) *
Not that it makes a difference but every car that was parked where i was had received a PCN.

Did you get a picture?

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 21:19) *
hold fire I posted the wrong link at the start of the street is a RPZ sign

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6244375,-...3312!8i6656

So it would be up to the council to prove that the correct date was shown.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Gavin Fernandes
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 09:14
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QUOTE
Did you get a picture?


Unfortunately I didnt take a pic

QUOTE
hold fire I posted the wrong link at the start of the street is a RPZ sign

Whilst I dont dispute that sign I would come from the other side of walnut street.

So do you think I should appeal on the grounds of the following:
1) There was no Event sign to advise motorists of the Event Day in the close vicinity of the sign
2) The Event Day date was wrong (contradicts point 1 to an extent)
3) Didnt notice the sign had flipped

Regards
Gavin
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cp8759
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 20:57
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QUOTE (Gavin Fernandes @ Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 09:14) *
QUOTE
hold fire I posted the wrong link at the start of the street is a RPZ sign

Whilst I dont dispute that sign I would come from the other side of walnut street.

So you passed this sign? https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6255049,-...3312!8i6656

It's one thing if you positively remember the event day being missing or wrong, it's quite another if you have no idea if a date was shown or not.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Gavin Fernandes
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 21:55
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No I'm saying that i didn't pass any signs that displayed the event.
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cp8759
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 00:21
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So you're saying that sign was blank? Or the entire sign is missing? If you drove down that road it must be one or the other.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Gavin Fernandes
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 09:33
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I'm saying the sign was missing altogether
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cp8759
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 20:16
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QUOTE (Gavin Fernandes @ Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 09:33) *
I'm saying the sign was missing altogether

If you mean the whole sign is simply not there, you should go back and get a picture and this will be an easy win.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Gavin Fernandes
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 22:23
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But surely these event signs are temporary as it will depend on the event that is happening that day?
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cp8759
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 19:25
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You need to spell out what you mean by "the sign was missing altogether", do you mean that:

1) There was an empty pole
2) There was nothing there at all, not even a pole
3) The top "Resident Permit holders..." sign was there but not the lower panel stating "Next event day"
4) The lower panel was there but it was completely blank
5) The lower panel was there and said "Next event day" but there was no date, i.e. the second line was blank
6) There was a rift in space and time such that that entire side of the street appeared as a black hole
7) And combination or variation of the above.

I wasn't there so I can only go by what you tell me.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Gavin Fernandes
post Sat, 7 Dec 2019 - 17:11
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Ok. So I have just driven back to where I was.

I would have passed this sign (ignore the event date):

- Sign 1

When I parked up, the sign on display was:

- Sign 2

When I have just driven back the sign has flipped to this:

- Sign 3

My point is every time I have parked there the sign on display is the last one where it states the parking restrictions for Monday - Saturday. So the honest truth is that I didnt notice that the sign had changed.

Its like parking in the same place everytime but having to check the parking restrictions each time you park there.
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cp8759
post Sun, 8 Dec 2019 - 14:09
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QUOTE (Gavin Fernandes @ Sat, 7 Dec 2019 - 17:11) *
So the honest truth is that I didnt notice that the sign had changed.

Its like parking in the same place everytime but having to check the parking restrictions each time you park there.

Unfortunately that is what the law requires, you are meant to check every time you park and if you don't, you risk being in contravention. If you simply didn't notice the signs, you have no statutory grounds of appeal I'm afraid, because the council will no doubt argue that the signs were there to be seen.

Of course, you could appeal anyway and challenge the council to show that the "next event day" sign was showing the correct date, but I'm not sure I'd risk the discount on that alone. If the council turns up with evidence that the correct event date was shown, your appeal would fall flat on its face.

However we're a long way from appealing to the tribunal, you can make a risk-free informal challenge as Leicester City Council will always re-offer the discount if you make an informal challenge during the 14 day discount period. Even if your representation is rejected, at least you'll have more time to pay.

If you want to make a representation, it will need to be a plea for discretion, i.e. apologise for missing the sign, say you're very sorry and promise to be a lot more careful in future. Don't include anything about the signs not being there or the like because you're basically asking the council to be nice and let you off. Post a draft here before sending it.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 - 14:10


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Gavin Fernandes
post Sun, 8 Dec 2019 - 21:50
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Here is my draft letter. Let me know what you think. Also, do i send a letter or appeal through the online page:

Dear Sir or Madam,

Parking ticket number: xxxxxxxx
Vehicle registration number: xxxxxxxx

I received a parking ticket on 1 December 2019 but I believe there are mitigating circumstances to explain why I had parked where I did and I would like to submit an informal appeal.

I have parked on Walnut Street beforehand and the parking sign that was on display did not have any restrictions for Sundays. I therefore thought it was ok to park on Walnut Street on Sunday 1 December. When I parked on Sunday 1 December 2019 I did not realise that the sign had changed to a sign where there were event day restrictions which prohibited cars from parking during the event day between the hours of 10am – 11pm. This was a genuine honest mistake.

I would like to apologise for parking on Walnut Street when there were parking restrictions in place and for any inconvenience that this may have caused. I would be so grateful if the Council could show some discretion and cancel the fine for the honest mistake that I have made, especially given that this is the season of goodwill. You will see from your records that this my first even parking or driving offence. Going forwards, I promise to be more careful in the future to avoid a repeat incident of this.


Yours faithfully,

Gavin Fernandes
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 8 Dec 2019 - 21:53
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QUOTE (Gavin Fernandes @ Sun, 8 Dec 2019 - 21:50) *
Here is my draft letter. Let me know what you think. Also, do i send a letter or appeal through the online page:

Dear Sir or Madam,

Parking ticket number: xxxxxxxx
Vehicle registration number: xxxxxxxx

I received a parking ticket on 1 December 2019 but I believe there are mitigating circumstances to explain why I had parked where I did and I would like to submit an informal appeal.

I have parked on Walnut Street beforehand and the parking sign that was on display did not have any restrictions for Sundays. I therefore thought it was ok to park on Walnut Street on Sunday 1 December. When I parked on Sunday 1 December 2019 I did not realise that the sign had changed to a sign where there were event day restrictions which prohibited cars from parking during the event day between the hours of 10am – 11pm. This was a genuine honest mistake.

I would like to apologise for parking on Walnut Street when there were parking restrictions in place and for any inconvenience that this may have caused. I would be so grateful if the Council could show some discretion and cancel the fine for the honest mistake that I have made, especially given that this is the season of goodwill. You will see from your records that this my first even parking or driving offence. Going forwards, I promise to be more careful in the future to avoid a repeat incident of this.



Yours faithfully,

Gavin Fernandes


Seems OK

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 - 21:53


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