PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Any way to challenge this bus lane contravention?
grumpyboy
post Thu, 7 Nov 2019 - 17:56
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 57
Joined: 13 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,738



Issued against my son whilst down in unfamiliar Brighton
1

2

3

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 9)
Advertisement
post Thu, 7 Nov 2019 - 17:56
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
cp8759
post Thu, 7 Nov 2019 - 18:23
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,554
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



Post the video, and give us a link to the location on google street view.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
grumpyboy
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 16:57
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 57
Joined: 13 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,738



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 7 Nov 2019 - 18:23) *
Post the video, and give us a link to the location on google street view.



There is no video only photos. Its at night so refer to link 3 above for google street view (lat 50.85735, -0.10487)
Lewes Road A270 heading East Camera is mounted on street light pole just before the 'Coldean' Bus stop

This post has been edited by grumpyboy: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 17:10
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 20:00
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 21,998
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



QUOTE (grumpyboy @ Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 16:57) *
There is no video

I think you'll find there is. Have you looked online?

And no, an actual link to GSV, not a picture of GSV.

--

Not sure why we don't routinely challenge Brighton BL PCNs; the flawed wording is classic 'Al's Bar'.
(I'll try and find time to explain later)


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Sat, 9 Nov 2019 - 00:47
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 21,998
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 20:00) *
Not sure why we don't routinely challenge Brighton BL PCNs; the flawed wording is classic 'Al's Bar'.
(I'll try and find time to explain later)

The bit I'm looking at is their description of 14 and 28 day periods.

I need your help.
I'll tell you, as they do, that the law deems the PCN 'served' 2 working days after posting (issue).
So this one served 8th Nov.

Please tell me what you understand the deadline to be for payment of the discounted amount of £30 ?

Ditto, the deadline for payment of the full amount or to make representations ?

This is not a trick question. I'm proving the PCN is unlawful.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sat, 9 Nov 2019 - 19:33
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,554
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



So the bus lane startrs here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.855812,-0...3312!8i6656

The zig-zags of the pedestrian crossing interrupt is but there's a repeater sign here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.8568421,-...3312!8i6656

The points Neil has identified might be your best bet, but I'd still like to see the video. It must exist so I'd recommend you either double check the council website, or if that fails contact them and ask. Some councils will send it as a DVD in the post.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
grumpyboy
post Sun, 10 Nov 2019 - 23:40
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 57
Joined: 13 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,738



QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 9 Nov 2019 - 00:47) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 20:00) *
Not sure why we don't routinely challenge Brighton BL PCNs; the flawed wording is classic 'Al's Bar'.
(I'll try and find time to explain later)

The bit I'm looking at is their description of 14 and 28 day periods.

I need your help.
I'll tell you, as they do, that the law deems the PCN 'served' 2 working days after posting (issue).
So this one served 8th Nov.

Please tell me what you understand the deadline to be for payment of the discounted amount of £30 ?

Ditto, the deadline for payment of the full amount or to make representations ?

This is not a trick question. I'm proving the PCN is unlawful.


I understand the deadline for reduced payment is 14 days after the 8th Nov. Similarly for full amount or representations to be 28days after the 8th Nov.

How does this make the PCN unlawful?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sun, 10 Nov 2019 - 23:57
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,554
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (grumpyboy @ Sun, 10 Nov 2019 - 23:40) *
I understand the deadline for reduced payment is 14 days after the 8th Nov. Similarly for full amount or representations to be 28days after the 8th Nov.

Again not a trick question, but what do you calculate the 14th and 28th day to be?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
grumpyboy
post Yesterday, 09:14
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 57
Joined: 13 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,738



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 10 Nov 2019 - 23:57) *
QUOTE (grumpyboy @ Sun, 10 Nov 2019 - 23:40) *
I understand the deadline for reduced payment is 14 days after the 8th Nov. Similarly for full amount or representations to be 28days after the 8th Nov.

Again not a trick question, but what do you calculate the 14th and 28th day to be?


21nov and 5dec respectively

Where are you going with this?

This post has been edited by grumpyboy: Yesterday, 09:14
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Yesterday, 11:54
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,554
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (grumpyboy @ Mon, 11 Nov 2019 - 09:14) *
21nov and 5dec respectively

Those are the correct dates in law, but they're not the dates given by the PCN. If I say you must do something within 1 day, you'd normally assume that means you must do it by tomorrow, making today day 0. If I say you must do something within 1 day of 8 November, you'd rightly assume you must do the thing by 9th November. So if I say you must do something within 14 days of 8 November, you'd get to 22 November because 8 November is still day 0.

But the legislation defined the discount period as the period of 14 days beginning with the date of service, making 8th November day 1. By using the expression "within", both the 14 and 28 day periods are wrong and this makes the PCN invalid.

See the decision in Al's Bar & Restaurant Ltd v London Borough of Wandsworth (2020106430, 28 October 2002) here: http://bit.ly/36TCUCV


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Tuesday, 12th November 2019 - 10:53
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.