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Hounslow - Introduction of Residents Parking - No Road Markings, Contravention 12r - Parked in a residents parking zone without permit
efunc
post Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 22:08
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Contravention Code: 12r
Date of Contravention: 05/11/2019
Location: Wilmington Avenue, Chiswick, London W4
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Another day another fine. The ink’s barely dry on the last one and now I’ve got another, in similar circumstances, 2 streets away!

I was searching for a new spot to park my car as Burlington Lane in Chiswick has just been made restricted parking and has dotted white ‘residents parking’ bay lines all the way down. I turned off into Wilmington Avenue where I have parked on previous occasions and there are no white lines, designated bays, single yellow or double yellow lines at all. I parked here again today, however returned to my car after an hour to find I’d been ticketed!

I was very cautious about parking here. Despite the absence of road markings there was a new sign placed at the entrance of the road saying "Residents permit holders parking only past this point Mon - Fri 10 am - Noon”, HOWEVER my partner was insistent that the sign must refer to Burlington Lane that was just turned off from since that had all new dotted white parking bay lines. Furthermore, on the rear of this sign it says “Permit parking area ENDS”.

We debated both signs for some time. She convinced me that the “Permit parking area ENDS” sign clearly refers to Wilmington Avenue since the sign faces that road and there are no road markings on it. On the other hand the "Residents permit holders parking only past this point Mon - Fri 10 am - Noon” sign, she argued, must refer to Burlington Lane since it faces that road and there are clearly newly painted parking bays all along it. I was reluctantly convinced that this sounds plausible. But shortly afterwards found the PCN on my car.

What are the rules regarding road markings? Should they be here, or is it not mandatory?









This post has been edited by efunc: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 22:12
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post Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 22:08
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stamfordman
post Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 22:44
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Sign looks clear to me - how could it not mean what it says - past this point? These types of zone have become popular with councils in self contained areas and I think are authorised by amendment to regs about 8 years ago. As you found out, this one is there to deter commuter parking.

What are ‘Past this point’ parking areas?
‘Past this point’ is a form of controlled parking which is managed without the introduction of parking bays or yellow lines. These areas are usually used in a cul-de-sac or a small network of roads with little or no through traffic. This type of zone aims to reduce the visual intrusion of road markings and signs and maximise parking provision in locations where parking demand is high but available kerb space is low. Roads within ‘Past this point’ areas would not have marked out designated parking bays or yellow lines but restrictions will be enforced through roadside signs. This would mean that only zone entry signs would be needed on each road stating ‘permit holders parking only past this point’ with the operational period and occasional repeater signs that will state ‘permit holders only’ with the operational times.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 22:44
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efunc
post Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 22:55
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I see, thanks for the clarification. It confused us because we have been parking here for years but all these new restrictions have been introduced in the past few weeks. They are different on every street and so when we get a PCN on one of them we think we've become familiar with the new rules, only to encounter some different 'new' rules a few meters around the corner. In this case Burlington Lane had all the new white parking bays with that sign on it, so we put 2 + 2 together and concluded that the sign must be referring to those lines. Wilmington Avenue was seemingly clear, “Permit parking area ENDS” sign seemed to confirm this, but we were clearly being a little optimistic. Hounslow no seem to have taken away all parking in the Chiswick area from what I can see.

This post has been edited by efunc: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 22:58
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stamfordman
post Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 23:03
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Well don't give up just yet - I expect another member will chime in with something such as the traffic orders that Hounslow is using for these new zones. I think the code 12 is OK.

Council also has a duty to display clear signage but there's nothing stopping it mixing up these past these point zones within or next to conventional controlled zones.
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cp8759
post Wed, 6 Nov 2019 - 17:53
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Re-post the front of the PCN, it's not loading for some reason.

Also, post up the council's photos.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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efunc
post Thu, 7 Nov 2019 - 16:33
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Yes, I did indeed delete it because I forgot to mask some identifying field in it. Here it is again:



Council pics:














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cp8759
post Thu, 7 Nov 2019 - 18:01
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You look banged-to-right on the contravention, however the wording of the PCN is duplicitous (i.e. it doesn't tell you exactly what it is that you've done wrong). If you want to pursue a technical appeal we can help you. A further explanation of what duplicity is can be found here: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry1492862

The gazette notice is here https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3364542 so if you want to pursue this, we can get hold of the traffic orders to see if they're in order. Let me know what you want to do.


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No, I am not a lawyer.
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efunc
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 10:44
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Thanks for the input. The Contravention is 12r which seems appropriate on the face of it. I haven't studied the technical argument so I'm not sure how applicable it is, however, yes, I would be interested in pursuing this if it's a feasible option.
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cp8759
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 21:38
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QUOTE (efunc @ Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 10:44) *
Thanks for the input. The Contravention is 12r which seems appropriate on the face of it. I haven't studied the technical argument so I'm not sure how applicable it is, however, yes, I would be interested in pursuing this if it's a feasible option.

So how do you know if the PCN is for not having a permit, or not having a voucher, or not displaying a pay&display ticket, or not making payment of the parking charge?

And how do you know what the r in "12r" stands for?

This illustrates the point on duplicity, it does not unequivocally particularise the allegation. In the pre-civil enforcement days, if the police had summonsed you to court the summons would have been bad for duplicity. However this ground is untested at the tribunal so we cannot be sure whether it would be accepted or not, but some of us are of the view that it should be.

I've asked for a copy of the traffic orders, I'll post them up when they come through. To preserve the discount, you must make a representation by 18 November at the latest, so if the orders are not back by then you'll just have to make a plea for discretion.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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efunc
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 21:44
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OK, that's interesting. I didn't question it particularly because there is no 'pay and display' in this street. However your points raise some valid questions. I'll wait for your view when the traffic orders arrive. Thanks
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efunc
post Sat, 16 Nov 2019 - 15:03
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So, it's around the time I need to start addressing this. I guess if nothing new has turned up I'll just pay it off before the penalty goes up.
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cp8759
post Sat, 16 Nov 2019 - 19:56
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Did you read my last post? Providing you send something by midnight on Monday, the council has guaranteed it will extend the discount period by another 14 days. Considering it could take the council one or two weeks to reply, you could send any old rubbish and this will automatically buy you the better part of a month if not more.

So, send a representation over the weekend simply explaining that you misunderstood the signs, you're awfully sorry, will be more careful in future and promise not to do it ever again. Even if the council rejects, in all likelihood you'll have till mid-December at the earliest before the extended discount period runs out. We should have the traffic orders back by then and you'll be able to make an informed decision as to whether it's worth carrying on or not.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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efunc
post Sun, 17 Nov 2019 - 12:29
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OK, yes, that's a plan. I'll go ahead and do that now. Thanks.
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cp8759
post Tue, 19 Nov 2019 - 19:52
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Here are the orders:

The London Borough of Hounslow (Grove Park) (Parking Places) (Amendment No.1) Order 2019 http://bit.ly/2KEN5lo
The London Borough of Hounslow (Park Road and Staveley Road) (Parking Places) (Amendment No.7) Order 2019 http://bit.ly/2rS9NzJ
The London Borough of Hounslow (Waiting and Loading Restriction) (Amendment No.243) Order 2019 http://bit.ly/35bzCsW


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 19 Nov 2019 - 21:12
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Not completely untested, but not a vast store of cases on the subject. I included it a recent appeal focusing on the use of the suffix not just the letter


The regulations require that the reason a CEO believes a PCN should be served is contained within the PCN. The wording of a code 12 contravention does not do this. Indeed it lists two different places and five different reasons for the issue of the PCN.

A person must know why they have a PCN or a NTO. This cannot be ascertained by reading the PCN

The statutory ground is made out and the PCN must be cancelled.

Code 12 gives a number of reasons why a PCN is served but a suffix is required. No suffix was cited. As such it is impossible to ascertain the reason for a PCN In the same was as a moving traffic PCN, an example the description for a prohibited turn must use the suffix L or R to convey Left or right turn. The words not just the letter need be used

I would refer the adjudicator to case reference 2150275729 adjudicated by Carl Teper

Mr Dishman appears on behalf of the Appellant.
I have allowed this appeal for the following reasons:
First, I accept the evidence of the driver (the Appellant's husband) that the Penalty Charge Notices was not found affixed to the Appellant's vehicle when he returned to it.
Second, I agree with the Appellant's representative that, in the particular circumstances of this case, to follow the judgement of Mr Adjudicator Austin Wilkinson in the case of Rush - v - London Borough Southwark (case number 2120562288).
Third, in doing so I find (for the same reasons as Adjudicator Wilkinson) that the failure to record the suffix on the Penalty Charge Notice to be a procedural impropriety; the Appellant in this case would not have known from the Notice to Owner that her vehicle had been parked by her husband in a residents' bay.
Fourth, I have copied into this decision the relevant part of Adjudicator Wilkinson's decision in the case of Rush:
'I see that the allegation in the Penalty Charge Notice is the standardised and rather complex wording of a "12" allegation. It consists of 36 words and encompasses the possibility of application to three different types of parking location and four different ways in which a contravention might occur. The reason for this standardisation relates to how the Mayor of London authorises rates of penalty. However this does not exempt the local authority from the legal necessity of giving to the Appellant an adequate description of why the claim to penalty is being made: he must be able to make an informed decision as to whether to pay the discount rate or dispute the PCN'.
The appeal is allowed.


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cp8759
post Tue, 19 Nov 2019 - 22:15
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I would agree with a challenge on the suffix wording, the letter alone would be meaningless to most people. Let's see what the council does next. I've not checked the orders in detail but they look ok from a quick skim, maybe Mick will find something useful?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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efunc
post Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 02:59
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Evening all, I've just returned from holiday to find a letter of rejection from the council:





It's a generic letter, worded practically identically to the one I received from them last month for another PCN. The problem is it's dated 22/11/19, and I went away on the 26/11/19 and have just returned on the 11/12/19. Unlike all previous times they did not send me a copy by email, even though I supplied my address, so consequently I've lost the opportunity to pay the discounted rate it seems.

What should I do next would you advise?

Thanks
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 11:25
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QUOTE (efunc @ Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 02:59) *
Evening all, I've just returned from holiday to find a letter of rejection from the council:





It's a generic letter, worded practically identically to the one I received from them last month for another PCN. The problem is it's dated 22/11/19, and I went away on the 26/11/19 and have just returned on the 11/12/19. Unlike all previous times they did not send me a copy by email, even though I supplied my address, so consequently I've lost the opportunity to pay the discounted rate it seems.

What should I do next would you advise?

Thanks

wait for the NTO then go for it, but do not send anything to the council without checking with us


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efunc
post Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 21:21
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 12:25) *
wait for the NTO then go for it, but do not send anything to the council without checking with us


I hadn't finished opening all my mail. I just did now and see that it had already arrived!
Should I upload it too?
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John U.K.
post Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 21:33
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QUOTE
I hadn't finished opening all my mail. I just did now and see that it had already arrived!
Should I upload it too?


Yes - all sides
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