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PCN while on holiday, I went on holiday and council put a temporary restriction up
fed25
post Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 11:27
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I went on holiday on the 31 July - I have a ferry booking confirmation through my partner's email (as I was travelling with him).
PCN dated 15th August.
I returned on the 22 August and saw the PCN on my car.
I appealed to the council but they have rejected on the grounds I should have checked with them about any upcoming restrictions. I have attached their letter.

They say they put up the restriction the day after I went on holiday.
I have also attached a screenshot from their website about temporary parking restriction terms.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

This post has been edited by fed25: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 13:20
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post Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 11:27
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stamfordman
post Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 11:33
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You mean 31 July you went away.

This case should help and references a key case - Camden LBC v Humphreys:


Peter Brosnan v London Borough of Brent (case reference 2180194309)

The Appellant was represented by his wife, the driver of the vehicle.

At the time of the observation the vehicle was parked in a bay indicated as suspended and it is not surprising that a PCN was issued. The driver’s case, however, is that at the time of parking there was no suspension sign in place. The Council states that signs were erected on the 16th march and produces its records in support.

Having heard the driver at some length and in some detail I find her evidence very persuasive. This is a driver who was well aware of the various suspensions occurring in the area and indeed on this occasion moved her vehicle to this parking place having been displaced by other suspension signage. The suspension sign relied on is seen to be immediately adjacent to her vehicle; and it seems to me that compelling evidence is required to show that in these circumstances the driver failed to see what was as plain as the proverbial pikestaff. The driver on discovering the PCN spoke to various operatives of the water company who confirmed that there was on going difficulties with signs being removed or displaced and one of them confirmed that the sign was put in place after her vehicle had parked.

The Council’s evidence appears to show that 10 signs were erected in or near this road on the 16th. However there seems to me to be no clear evidence to show that the particular sign relied on was one of them , nor is there any evidence ( such as a photograph) to show the sign remained place shortly before the vehicle was parked. On balance I prefer the evidence of the Appellant and find that the sign was not in place at the time of parking.

The Appellant has understandably assumed that if this is so no contravention can occur and this appears to be accepted by the Council. Although I share this view I have to note that the law is perhaps not so clear cut. In a recent decision of the Court of Appeal (Camden LBC v Humphreys [2017] EWCA Civ 24) a similar issue fell to be decided in the case of a motorcyclist who left his motorcycle in an unsuspended bay which was subsequently suspended incurring a PCN. The motorist succeeded in a |Judicial review hearing in the High Court at which the Council unaccountably did not appear. The Council subsequently appealed to the Court of Appeal. They failed, but purely on the basis that they were too late and should have made their submissions to the High Court at the original hearing. The Court of Appeal, however did express a provisional view as to what the law was in this type of situation. The majority view was that the Council is only required to prove that the bay was suspended and that the vehicle was parked within it for a contravention to occur. The view of the remaining Lord Justice of Appeal was that some form of notice of the suspension would be required. The Court emphasised that the views expressed were only provisional pending the law being fully argued in some subsequent case; and therefore technically the views expressed are not binding on me. With great respect I agree with the minority view; it seems to me a principle of all parking law that the motorist should have some notice of a restriction or prohibition when deciding whether to park.

As I am not satisfied adequate notice of the suspension was given the Appeal is allowed.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 11:34
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fed25
post Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 11:50
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Thank you stamfordman for your prompt reply.

I am not entirely sure how I can use the case you have quoted in my appeal..am I able to quote it ?

I have edited the date - I meant the 31st July. biggrin.gif
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cp8759
post Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 12:11
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To be honest you'll struggle with this one, the sign was up for over two weeks prior to the date of issue of the PCN. I don't see much chance of an adjudicator ruling that 12+ days isn't enough notice.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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stamfordman
post Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 12:11
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Well I presume they have reoffered the discount - post the whole letter - so you need to decide whether to wait for the notice to owner and carry on with the full penalty in play.

Also post your challenge.

The issue I see is the length of your holiday - 2 weeks in usual but yours was about 4 weeks.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 12:12
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 13:08
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If the OP was away before the AWS was erected he was legally parked until he became aware of the restriction IMO. By the time he returned the work and thereby the reason for the suspension had finished.

Against that the Council contends that reasonable notice was given of a forthcoming change although it does not respond to the fact that moving the vehicle was beyond the OP's control since he was unaware of the restriction and o/s the UK.

Last, this Council has already admitted in the Court of Appeal that there is no legal responsibility to check one's vehicle. That said, adjudicators seem to invest permit conditions with more authority than they deserve in suspension cases.

This one is relevant:-

2170385810

This is an appeal on the ground the contravention did not occur.

I have reviewed all the evidence in this case.

Mr Zaman does not dispute being parked in the residents permit bay in question. He states he parked and left to visit a friend in Scotland. At the time of his departure the bay was not suspended and he was parked legally.

The enforcement authority state that he should have taken steps in the event of long term absence to ensure the vehicle could be moved if needed. They advertised works on the highways would be taking place through various media and Mr Zaman would have been aware of this.

It is for the enforcement authority to prove Mr Zaman parked in contravention of the suspension. However no evidence has been provided about when the suspension notice was put up, the details of what work was notified in the media referred to and whether that included specifics about what bays would be suspended and when.

The enforcement authority state Mr Zaman has produced no evidence to show he was away when the bay was suspended. However since Mr Zaman has raised the question it is for the enforcement authority to prove his vehicle was not present when the bay was suspended. It is usual to expect when a bay is suspended that the enforcement authority take photographs of vehicles in the bay at the time or even move the vehicles to a legal bay. Either course would prevent inadvertent contravention.

I am not satisfied Mr Zaman knew of the contravention at the time he parked and therefore find the contravention did not occur.

I allow this appeal.------
Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 13:09
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fed25
post Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 13:15
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They have re offered the discount.

I haven't posted my challenge as I it simply stated that I was away before the notice was put up.

Sorry- return date was another typo. I returned on the 22 August.

How can I check that the council had planned to put this restriction in place, other than the yellow sign on the post.
If they hadn't planned it before the 1st August, then how could I have checked before I went away?

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stamfordman
post Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 13:47
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QUOTE (fed25 @ Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 14:15) *
How can I check that the council had planned to put this restriction in place, other than the yellow sign on the post.
If they hadn't planned it before the 1st August, then how could I have checked before I went away?


Camden is the only council I know that sends email alerts of suspensions. Not sure it would have helped you though here if you were 1000s of miles away unless someone here could move your car. You could at least email Camden and flag it up.

https://www.camden.gov.uk/email-alerts-and-subscriptions
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fed25
post Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 14:01
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Yes thanks stamfordman. I am signed up for these email alerts.

I have checked back in my inbox and I cant see an alert for this restriction. That is not to say that I might have deleted it.

How could I find out if there is a record of these email alerts and the date they have gone out?
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stamfordman
post Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 14:11
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If they didn't send an alert and you are opted in for that street then that's ammunition in my view. No point in having a system unless it works. You'll have to ask them if an alert should have been sent to you.
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fed25
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 08:36
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Thank you Mad Mick V for citing this case. Could you clarify how I could also claim that the contravention did not occur?

"The enforcement authority state Mr Zaman has produced no evidence to show he was away when the bay was suspended. However since Mr Zaman has raised the question it is for the enforcement authority to prove his vehicle was not present when the bay was suspended. It is usual to expect when a bay is suspended that the enforcement authority take photographs of vehicles in the bay at the time or even move the vehicles to a legal bay. Either course would prevent inadvertent contravention."

In my case - the council did take photos of my car in the suspended bay, but you are right - they could have moved it to a legal bay - but did not.

I need help with the language please...this is not my forte. unsure.gif
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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 15:30
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OP-----have a look through the posts on this thread again. Others believe that an appeal in your case would be difficult. I have in my post indicated the arguments likely to be be raised by the Council. Camden have re-offered the discount.

You have not yet determined that the Council sent you an e-mail concerning the suspension.

If you take the matter forward it will be for the full amount of the penalty.

You must decide if you wish to proceed on that basis.

Mick
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fed25
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 12:19
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Ok thanks Mad Mick V. Should i call the council and ask them for evidence that they might have sent?
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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 07:08
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No, your position must be that you have not received anything from the Council if you are content that any email was not automatically deleted as spam.

Mick
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fed25
post Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 07:33
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But i am not sure that their email wasnt deleted as spam. In order to use this in my appeal I would need to make sure - how do I do this? By calling them ? Or would there be an online record of email alerts?
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stamfordman
post Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 07:55
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QUOTE (fed25 @ Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 08:33) *
But i am not sure that their email wasnt deleted as spam. In order to use this in my appeal I would need to make sure - how do I do this? By calling them ? Or would there be an online record of email alerts?



I wouldn't worry about this - the case is you signed up for a service and you weren't notified. Leave it to them to counter it.

As an aside, have you ever received an email about another suspension? Does it work by street or postcode or what?
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fed25
post Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 08:18
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Ok thanks

I have received other emails which are ordered by parking zones - which is loosely based on postcodes
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stamfordman
post Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 08:30
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QUOTE (fed25 @ Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 09:18) *
I have received other emails which are ordered by parking zones - which is loosely based on postcodes



That's good - you can say you have received previous suspension alerts but not this one. I doubt they have a 100% record with this system.
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fed25
post Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 09:13
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ok thats great advice - thank you so much. If i write my appeal - if I post it here, can you have a look at it?
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stamfordman
post Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 09:43
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QUOTE (fed25 @ Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 10:13) *
ok thats great advice - thank you so much. If i write my appeal - if I post it here, can you have a look at it?



that's what we do
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