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PCN 62 while inside ON Engine Car car thrown, Advice needed. Ignore or challenge
horror of godzil...
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 12:10
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Guys.
I need some advice on an incident when a parking attendent turned up and just thrown the Parkking charge notice on the windscreen. Actually, I was in Hayes last week visiting friends and in one of the service lane with parking on one side and other side being double yellow line while coming back. My wife forgot the house keys and asked me to pull over so that she can check. I parked my car on Part pavement (double line) just not to block the following traffic till she checks with friend to find keys. The car was ON and I was behind the steering wheel with wife as co-passenger. Wasn't parked for more than a minute and all of a sudden I can see a traffic attendent with camera in hand. I decided to move and quickly reveresed the car and moved on. But he was quick to take one photo with CAR part parked on Pavement. And then he threw the PCN on my car which got slipped into the windscreen. I came back and looked at the online eveidences. Just one photo with 10% PCN visible and rest inside the Windscreen Wipers area (not visible) and 5-6 photos of CAR from behind (moving). The only parked photo shows light of the car ON and we sitting in car.
On the PCN. He has mentioned the REG name correctly, but MAKE - (AUDI as Volvo) and Color ( Brown as BLACK) -- Probably he was too quick to issue a PCN.
Looks like he not even waited for a minute. PCN says 18:35 to 18:36 but all the photos are 18:36 only

Question :- Can I simply ignore this and wait for the furthur notice to arrive before contesting. As I can say I didnt get any and they have no evidences. Or contest this PCN straightaway.

There are no photos with PCN posted on windscreen (clearly). and the photo evidence doesnt show it to be a PCN either.

Any help and guidance will be highly appreciated.

This post has been edited by horror of godzilla: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 14:16
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post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 12:10
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Jlc
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 12:34
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Who issued it?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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horror of godzil...
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 12:43
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Hillingdon Council. A Parking attendant with green coat and black and green cap If I remember correctly
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Jlc
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 12:53
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Ok, you need to be in the council (decrim) part of the forum. (This is private tickets part)

Hit the '! Report' button and ask for it to be moved...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 12:59
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Lol, ignore and thats a fast way to a higher penalty.
THis is a real council PCN so treat it properly or you end up with real bailiffs.
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horror of godzil...
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 13:04
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 12:53) *
Ok, you need to be in the council (decrim) part of the forum. (This is private tickets part)

Hit the '! Report' button and ask for it to be moved...


Thanks . done that :-)
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Incandescent
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 14:44
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OK, now you need to post up all sides of the PCN. Blank out PCN NUmber and car details. Leave everything else in. Please also provide GSV link to the location.
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hcandersen
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 14:56
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Can you strip out what is not relevant as regards the contravention from your first post - I'll try and help:

I was travelling in my car with my wife as passenger. Suddenly she recalled that she might have left the keys in the house(we need more detail e.g. on your way from to, you had just moved off or whatever etc.)

She asked me to pull over so that she could check.

I stopped on DYL and she alighted from the car/was about to exit when.......


Forget the CEO, at the moment I want to know whether you have a solid exemption from the contravention because alighting is an exemption. Engine on/off is not a determinant issue, but could be a supporting factor.

So the exact sequence of events, but without the distraction of the CEO, you could overlay this later.

And the PCN pl.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 14:57
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horror of godzil...
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 15:56
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 15:56) *
Can you strip out what is not relevant as regards the contravention from your first post - I'll try and help:

I was travelling in my car with my wife as passenger. Suddenly she recalled that she might have left the keys in the house(we need more detail e.g. on your way from to, you had just moved off or whatever etc.)

She asked me to pull over so that she could check.

I stopped on DYL and she alighted from the car/was about to exit when.......


Forget the CEO, at the moment I want to know whether you have a solid exemption from the contravention because alighting is an exemption. Engine on/off is not a determinant issue, but could be a supporting factor.

So the exact sequence of events, but without the distraction of the CEO, you could overlay this later.

And the PCN pl.



I was in Hayes last week visiting friends Travelling from Hayes to Walton on Thames/ Weybridge.

My wife realised that she can't see home keys in her bag and told me she might have forgot at friends place or LAPTOP Bag (which was in boot) and asked me to pull
over so that she can check.
I parked my car on Part pavement (double line) just not to block the following traffic till she checks in bags / friend. The car was ON and I was behind the
steering wheel with wife as co-passenger.

I did came out and opened up the boot to check the bag and it's only at this point my wife noticed the CEO from front and told me.
I quickly got back into the car, reversed it and moved.

The CEO had printed the PCN by now in a rush and put wrong details of the car ( Make & Color) and threw the PCN in a moving car which went under the windscreen wiper compartment.
At this moment he clicked his only photo with car tyres on the Pavement (reversing) and the rest of the photos are of moving car from side and behind.
All this took no more than 30-40 seconds.
Photo evidences also are of same time when car moved away. PCN says 18:35 to 18:36 but all the photos are 18:36 only

This post has been edited by horror of godzilla: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 07:32
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Incandescent
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 17:09
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Putting your car onto the footway is what has got you the PCN, not the double yellow lines. The thing is the DYLs bar waiting but the stated contravention is for parking off the carriageway. The legislation for the two are totally different and separate. The question is - were you parked when your car had its engine running and you sitting in the driver seat for about 1 minute. I would say no but I'm not a lawyer or an adjudicator. Others no doubt will soon tell me whether I am right or wrong.
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horror of godzil...
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:45
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the only photo evidence on site

I have following points........any ideas ???

my back wheel was over the low kerb. Therefore it follows that 'one or more wheels' was not over any part of the footpath.

contravention was designed to prevent cars from blocking the pavement. A there is enough space for anyone, including people with double buggies or wheelchairs, to easily pass along the pavement next to my car.

'de minimis' as my back wheel is hardly on the pavement at all.

This post has been edited by horror of godzilla: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 21:09
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hcandersen
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:55
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The next step is to see how far on to the footway you were parked. If a minor, trivial, amount then an argument could be put forward with alighting in support.

Just seen the photo, what a dreadful piece of parking and not one to which any amount of 'lost keys' would endear an adjudicator. For goodness sake what possessed you, you are right on a junction and what looks like against the flow of traffic on the wrong side of the carriageway.

On the basis of what we know, I'd pay the discount and move on.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:59
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horror of godzil...
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 21:03
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 21:55) *
The next step is to see how far on to the footway you were parked. If a minor, trivial, amount then an argument could be put forward with alighting in support.

Just seen the photo, what a dreadful piece of parking and not one to which any amount of 'lost keys' would endear an adjudicator. For goodness sake what possessed you, you are right on a junction?

On the basis of what we know, I'd pay the discount and move on.



I said, it's a Service lane :-) just before and [parallel to the main road. i was on a main road (before turned left) and then just after this service lane there is another main road. So.. Idea was to turn into service lane and park and check. do u want someone to find a parking spot ????

It's not a juntion of main road :-)
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 21:28
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Here

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5204214,-...6384!8i8192


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horror of godzil...
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 21:40
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 22:28) *



yes.. absolutely right :-)

thanks

wasnt able to locate...

as u all can see.. pleanty of space on footpath on right and at back for anyone to get past. It was not blocking anyone

This post has been edited by horror of godzilla: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 21:51
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Incandescent
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 21:58
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Have I missed something as I see no photo of your car in contravention ? What number post is it in ?

From your description, I would say de minimis, but only a photo can confirm, Trouble with all de minimis arguments is the councils don't accept this. If you're there for 6 nano-seconds a PCN will be issued such is their greed for cash. Only adjudicators consider it, and even then, some adjudicators seem to have difficulty with it despite it being a well-established legal principle.
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horror of godzil...
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 22:02
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here u go

this is the only photo evidence on portal

and was taken when the car was moving
and all the pics are from behind the car and on main service lane.

this is the only pic in question based on which pcn was issued

shows part of some paper on windscreen which i think is not PCN :-)

This post has been edited by horror of godzilla: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 22:43
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nextdoor
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 22:22
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QUOTE (horror of godzilla @ Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 22:40) *
as u all can see.. pleanty of space on footpath on right and at back for anyone to get past. It was not blocking anyone


The fact remains that regardless of how much or how little you were blocking anyone, you were parked with one or more wheels on the pavement. Alternatively the CEO could have ticketed you for parking on DYL or on the dropped kerb. He was spoilt for choice.

The discount looks the most attractive option.


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horror of godzil...
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 22:33
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QUOTE (nextdoor @ Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 23:22) *
QUOTE (horror of godzilla @ Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 22:40) *
as u all can see.. pleanty of space on footpath on right and at back for anyone to get past. It was not blocking anyone


The fact remains that regardless of how much or how little you were blocking anyone, you were parked with one or more wheels on the pavement. Alternatively the CEO could have ticketed you for parking on DYL or on the dropped kerb. He was spoilt for choice.

The discount looks the most attractive option.



Pakinging means bring (a vehicle that one is driving) to a halt and leave it temporarily, typically in a car park or by the side of the road.

But the vehicle wasnt left ??? and was always occupied.

Ami i missing something here ???
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nextdoor
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 22:39
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QUOTE (horror of godzilla @ Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 23:33) *
QUOTE (nextdoor @ Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 23:22) *
QUOTE (horror of godzilla @ Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 22:40) *
as u all can see.. pleanty of space on footpath on right and at back for anyone to get past. It was not blocking anyone


The fact remains that regardless of how much or how little you were blocking anyone, you were parked with one or more wheels on the pavement. Alternatively the CEO could have ticketed you for parking on DYL or on the dropped kerb. He was spoilt for choice.

The discount looks the most attractive option.



Pakinging means bring (a vehicle that one is driving) to a halt and leave it temporarily, typically in a car park or by the side of the road.

But the vehicle wasnt left ??? and was always occupied.

Ami i missing something here ???


Good luck with arguing that a vehicle is only parked, in the legal sense of the word ,if it is unoccupied
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