PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bus lane oxford street Manchester whitwlrth street west to chepstow
Bertie10
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 18:34
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33
Joined: 6 Mar 2018
Member No.: 96,876



Hello,
My husband has just received a bus lane fine but he cannot for the life of him understand why as he is a very observant driver, is this a typical place council to be sending fines ?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 18:34
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 19:59
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,075
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



Yep and we normally win. The adjudicators have found the signage wholly inadequate. Post up all the PCN and get and post the video, just in case of any surprises


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Incandescent
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 21:55
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,760
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,455



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 20:59) *
Yep and we normally win. The adjudicators have found the signage wholly inadequate. Post up all the PCN and get and post the video, just in case of any surprises

+1
This is the notorious Oxford Street bus lane in Manchester where the adjudicator, when allowing an appeal, excoriated the council for the inadequacy of their signs. However this doesn't stop the council issuing more PCNs despite what an adjudicator says. There are no penalties for ignoring what an adjudicator rules, and as most people cough-up you can see their dosh continuing to flood in as the scheme intended. It is a real scandal, frankly, but until people go to jail for malfeasance it will continue. Personally, I'd like to see them all boiled in oil, but then I am a bit vindictive when officials behave like Gauleiters.

All you can do is submit reps and if refused, take them to the adjudicators. We can assist with your representations text.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bertie10
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 07:20
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33
Joined: 6 Mar 2018
Member No.: 96,876



Thanks all. So I just need to take post PCN (do I need to depersonalise it)
Pastmybest you helped me win one a while ago I remember you weee so helpful. But I had an issue uploading so ,yes hope I can do it this time
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bertie10
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 08:34
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33
Joined: 6 Mar 2018
Member No.: 96,876



Having issues posting it again
It just says it’s too big but it’s only a photo and I don’t know how to
Make it smaller
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bertie10
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 08:46
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33
Joined: 6 Mar 2018
Member No.: 96,876



Ok think I managed it :-)
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 10:33
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,898
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (Incandescent @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 22:55) *
It is a real scandal, frankly, but until people go to jail for malfeasance it will continue. Personally, I'd like to see them all boiled in oil, but then I am a bit vindictive when officials behave like Gauleiters.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: get me evidence to the criminal standard that someone's committed an offence, and I'll prosecute them myself.

QUOTE (Bertie10 @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 09:46) *
Ok think I managed it :-)

Well there's no surprises there. Have a read of Watkin and others v Manchester City Council (MC01044-1808, 29 January 2019) http://bit.ly/2TKSfyu it's a real eye-opener.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bertie10
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 13:01
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33
Joined: 6 Mar 2018
Member No.: 96,876



So is there a standard letter we can use to appeal
Thanks in advance folks
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 14:43
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,075
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



You can use this it is a recent appeal so go through it and correct to conform to your case , so if I have said tribunal or adjudicator change to council and so on






1:- The alleged contravention did not occur;

This comes about as the signage fails to comply with The local authorities traffic orders (procedures act of 1996

I drove my vehicle eastbound along Whitworth Street West,. I approached the junction with Oxford Street in the left hand lane of B6469 Whitworth Street West to turn left into Oxford Street,

The first sign after joining Whitworth Street West shows symbol 619, which:
1. Does not inform drivers of a bus lane.
2. Does not inform drivers of any time restrictions.
The sign is some distance from the junction ahead and it is not clear that it relates to the Oxford Street junction as no distance is given. There is a car park entrance on the left and a right turn just after the sign which it appears to relate to.

The second road sign shows a permitted left turn with a red bar across it. This sign does NOT mean ‘No Entry’ or ‘No Left Turn’. Nor does it mean ‘Bus Lane’. It means ‘No through road for vehicular traffic in the direction indicated from the junction ahead’. This sign:
1. Contradicts (and in effect supersedes) the first sign.
2. Clearly indicates that vehicles may turn left into Oxford Street (without any restriction on type of vehicle or time of day) and having done so will have no through route.
3. Does not inform drivers there is a bus lane.
4. Does not inform drivers of any time restrictions

The third sign shows symbol 619, which does not inform drivers there is a bus lane. The sign is separated from the carriageway by a taxi rank and I was at this point concentrating on pedestrians stepping out, taxis pulling out, and the approaching junction and traffic lights. This third sign contradicts the second sign, and a left arrow in the road ahead reinforces the ‘left turn allowed’ advice from the second sign.

At the junction, the bus only sign is placed on Oxford Street such that it cannot be seen from the position of the traffic lights on Whitworth Street West from the direction in which I arrived.

I refer you to tribunal case MC01044-1808 (Adjudicator Knapp) which found against Manchester City Council on 29/01/2019, following a site visit to this location by the Adjudicator. Specifically paragraphs


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bertie10
post Sun, 15 Sep 2019 - 17:56
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33
Joined: 6 Mar 2018
Member No.: 96,876



Past my best l, you there
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 15 Sep 2019 - 20:31
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,075
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (Bertie10 @ Sun, 15 Sep 2019 - 18:56) *
Past my best l, you there


Just delete the last two words of my previous post and send that


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bertie10
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 05:59
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33
Joined: 6 Mar 2018
Member No.: 96,876



Hello all
So appeal has been rejected and they have refused our comments
Where do I go from here and am I likely to win
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 07:31
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,075
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (Bertie10 @ Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 06:59) *
Hello all
So appeal has been rejected and they have refused our comments
Where do I go from here and am I likely to win


you post the rejection letter so we can see it


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bertie10
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 11:31
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33
Joined: 6 Mar 2018
Member No.: 96,876



Thanks in advance all

Can you see them all

And another pne
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 11:35
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,075
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



The position is just as when you started but you will next appeal to the tribunal who have found in every case we have seen since the site visit of the deputy chief adjudicator and the findings in Watkin's and others that arose from it or

You can pay the £30 and that be an end to it. If you are going to appeal we will help you


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 14:06
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,898
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



I would definitely appeal, as far as we know nobody has lost a case since the Watkins decision in January.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bertie10
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 17:11
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33
Joined: 6 Mar 2018
Member No.: 96,876



I’d like to appeal thanks guys
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 19:56
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,898
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



Then just register the appeal with the tribunal and write "detailed grounds to follow" in the reasons box, the ground of appeal is that the alleged contravention did not occur.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bertie10
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 21:20
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33
Joined: 6 Mar 2018
Member No.: 96,876



I don’t need to put anything else?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 22:46
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,075
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (Bertie10 @ Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 22:20) *
I don’t need to put anything else?



No do not, Nothing more than FULL SUBMISSION TO FOLLOW the council will submit their evidence then we can rebut it . You will get an acknowledgement of registration and will be e mailed when the council upload their evidence and given a date by which you must submit. Tell us straight away


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Monday, 21st October 2019 - 19:05
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.