Cyclist headbutts pedestrian |
Cyclist headbutts pedestrian |
Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:15
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Caught on video in City of London.
Police are hunting a cyclist who headbutted a man to the ground after a near-miss on a pedestrian crossing. The cyclist ran a red light in Farringdon Street in the City of London at around 1.45pm on 22 August, narrowly avoiding hitting the pedestrian who was crossing the road. He then got off his bike, went back towards the businessman and headbutted him in the face, calmly cycling away as his victim lay sprawled on the pavement. https://youtu.be/r1a0yfqcYzo https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/se...trian-in-london This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:15 |
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Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:15
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 09:13
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#21
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
any plan to fit plates to cycles (which is nonsensical with a small amount of applied thought), Nonsensical, or just inconvenient and a bit expensive? Nonsensical is what I meant. Perhaps you could share your wisdom, then, because it's not obvious to me why it's nonsensical. Both registration and fitting a plate seem to be practical. -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 09:27
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
So a first bike used by a 5 year old needs a plate?
There are millions of bikes in the country, all would need registering. There is no record of bikes, nor standardised method of doing so which would make cheating ridiculously easy (and invalidate any possible benefits). The cost to the country in setting up the system (with potentially no benefit) would be huge. The cost to individuals would be significant and many bikes would be exceedingly difficult to fit a plate to regardless (full suspension mountain bikes with dropper posts). At a time when the government is trying to get more people on bikes in order to decrease our carbon footprint (net zero......), adding a barrier is not desirable to that aim. Deaths and injuries caused by cyclists are (for obvious reasons) significantly lower (virtually insignificant) than for mechanically propelled vehicles. Not impossible, but totally nonsensical. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:03
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#23
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
Not impossible, but totally nonsensical. The Japanese would disagree. Although to be fair they don't require a car/motorcycle-style plate to be displayed. -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:10
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Which is totally contrary to the intent here! Its more about tracing ownership and liability if its dumped.
They also implemented it a LONG time ago so the process was there from day one of buying a bike, which gets around some of the issues I mentioned. It's the only country in the world that does it..... says a lot! -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:16
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Perhaps you could share your wisdom, then, because it's not obvious to me why it's nonsensical. Me either. If the intent is to make it easier to trace the keeper of a bicycle the fact that it is not a practical method to trace a pedestrian seems immaterial. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:24
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
No doubt it will be possible soon to easily track bikes through internet of things technology, say built into the frame. Same for cars. It does raise privacy issues.
the bike schemes such as Santander already have GPS and bluetooth tech built in I think. This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:43 |
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 11:09
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
For the sake of a sort of balance, here's a car driver headbutting a cyclist:
https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/...cyclist-2828273 |
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 11:24
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Perhaps you could share your wisdom, then, because it's not obvious to me why it's nonsensical. Me either. If the intent is to make it easier to trace the keeper of a bicycle the fact that it is not a practical method to trace a pedestrian seems immaterial. Did you read why I think it's nonsensical? The intent is one thing, its whether its both practical and effective. Using it to trace pedestrians would actually be far easier as we are already (mostly) uniquely identified by the government while cycles are not, so you'd just need to tag the public registration number to that identifier. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 11:53
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#29
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
Perhaps you could share your wisdom, then, because it's not obvious to me why it's nonsensical. Me either. If the intent is to make it easier to trace the keeper of a bicycle the fact that it is not a practical method to trace a pedestrian seems immaterial. Did you read why I think it's nonsensical? The intent is one thing, its whether its both practical and effective. Using it to trace pedestrians would actually be far easier as we are already (mostly) uniquely identified by the government while cycles are not, so you'd just need to tag the public registration number to that identifier. The arguments you presented weren't really about practicality or effectiveness (apart from a sweeping assertion that it may have no benefit, which it clearly would), they were about cost and bureaucracy. However they were positively sensible compared to your "arguments" about pedestrians, which are just bizarre. -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 13:17
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 13:35
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Man, 69, jailed for knocking teenager off bike in road rage row
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/se...n-road-rage-row |
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 14:53
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Cost and bureaucracy are most certainly come into whether something makes sense to do or not, otherwise we'd already have spent billions on a totally segregated cycling network.
I didn't say no benefit, I just pointed out it was nonsensical when comparing what would be a tiny benefit compared to the effort required. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 16:17
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
I didn't say no benefit, I just pointed out it was nonsensical when comparing what would be a tiny benefit compared to the effort required. What evidence do you have that the benefit would be tiny? -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 17:34
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
The Department for Transport official costs (2017) for preventable fatal, serious and minor injuries are £1.9m, £213k and £21k respectively
According to this article, in 2016 three pedestrians were killed and 108 suffered seriously injury https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/07...ts-has-doubled/ There are typically five minor injuries for every serious but for bikes I would expect a higher figure, say 20 = 2160 minor injuries Back of the envelope estimate suggests an annual cost of pedestrian-cyclist collisions of about £70m About 3m bikes a year are sold and Cycling UK estimates that about 6m people use them at least once a week Even if a registration scheme could prevent an optimistic 20% of the casualty costs, to be cost-effective the scheme would have to cost less than £5/bike/year There may some merit in GPS tracking of new bikes, possibly linked to an insurance policy but, as Stamfordman says, it then raises privacy issues This post has been edited by Redivi: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 17:34 |
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 17:41
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I didn't say no benefit, I just pointed out it was nonsensical when comparing what would be a tiny benefit compared to the effort required. What evidence do you have that the benefit would be tiny? If every cyclist who went through a red light was copped and fined £100 same for other offences No entry for instance any scheme would be self financing in a couple of years -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 17:41
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Does it have to be cost effective?
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 17:43
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Does it have to be cost effective? not for me but its a spanner for rookies argument -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 18:08
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 425 Joined: 4 Aug 2014 From: In the beautiful Chilterns Member No.: 72,309 |
Are we talking all bicycles here or just those used on the road?
If mountain bikes are excluded when off road, would they be required for the 10 metres or so where a trail crosses a road? A trail such as The Ridgeway, a popular cycling route that crosses many roads. Are we also including children’s bicycles? Is a BMX a child’s bike or an adult’s? Heck it’s an Olympic sport now! -------------------- Speed does not kill. It's more to do with how you stop.
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 18:38
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#39
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Does it have to be cost effective? For most road safety schemes it appears so In this example from Norway of a range of road safety measures, there are only a couple of examples (one is bicycle helmets) where the benefit don't clearly outweigh the cost https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/...fit_analyses_en Some industries such as railways or nuclear power are prepared to pay a lot more for every estimated life saved This post has been edited by Redivi: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 18:40 |
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Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 20:15
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#40
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I didn't say no benefit, I just pointed out it was nonsensical when comparing what would be a tiny benefit compared to the effort required. What evidence do you have that the benefit would be tiny? Bit of a misquote there SP, try harder please! -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
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