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Speeding
gallorgs
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 02:38
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Hi
OK so i have been caught on camera for doing 70 mph in a 30 zone in a very Industrial zone at about 7.50 am on Saturday 6th July

I received the notice to prosecute letter within 14 days which was all correct

I have a lot of questions which i hope you can bare with me, First of all i have been driving for about 20 years with no points ever been on my licence

So the first question how long do i have to wait until i hear back the police or do i hear from the court?

Can i claim legal aid as i am on National living wage?

Should i get a solicitor & does anyone know any good ones in the Midlands???

And should i start talking to them now or wait to hear from the Police/Forum

Obviously i will have to go for mitigating circumstances, would i need to provide proof that i could lose my drop as i couldn't get to my job as its a 40 minute drive & working different shifts, I also have 2 children one is 10 mths old & my oldest has been diagnosed as Autistic

I no doubt have more questions later

Many Thanks in advance for reading & helping

Cheers

Paul


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post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 02:38
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The Rookie
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 05:52
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Once the driver is named (have you already done that?) it’s likely to be about 6 months from the date of offence before the driver gets a ‘summons’ (Single Justice Procedure Notice) which is sent out by the Police. Some forces send a letter stating the case will be going to court (as opposed to another remedy) most do not.

You don’t get legal aid, no.

You probably don’t need a solicitor anyway, unless you think you have a defence, maybe let us know where it happened so things can be looked at?

Losing your job isn’t mitigating circumstances, nor should it be considered by the court for a single offence, for that speed a ban of 28-56 days is all but certain.


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Jlc
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 07:44
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I doubt you can find any mitigating circumstances for the offence itself. (Only that there weren't any aggravating factors - i.e. quiet, dry, not near school etc.)

As already noted, this is odds on for a ban - given that excess you should plan on a lengthy ban - something towards 2 months. (They can sentence over 2 months if they think it is manifestly excessive)

6 points is possible but you'll have to be particularly pursuasive to the bench. Whilst you cannot submit a 'hardship' plea the bench are usually human and can consider your situation.

QUOTE (gallorgs @ Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 03:38) *
So the first question how long do i have to wait until i hear back the police or do i hear from the court?

If you've named the driver then you probably won't hear anything for many months. This will be the opportunity to submit a postal plea via the Single Justice Procedure. If they want to consider a ban (pretty certain) then you'll have to attend court.

QUOTE (gallorgs @ Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 03:38) *
Can i claim legal aid as i am on National living wage?

Not for this offence.

QUOTE (gallorgs @ Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 03:38) *
Should i get a solicitor & does anyone know any good ones in the Midlands???

And should i start talking to them now or wait to hear from the Police/Forum

There's probably little they can do - for a guilty plea it would be around minimising the sentence but this may be best coming from you.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 09:19
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Is it worth trying to "steer" towards 6 points by mentionuing the reminder youd have for 4 years of this on your licecnce, etc?

OP shoudl also check when they need to notify their insurance of any pending prosecutions.
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Logician
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:11
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QUOTE
First of all i have been driving for about 20 years with no points ever been on my licence


You can mention that to show that you are not an habitual speeder, this was a very uncharacteristic moment of madness etc. but it will not count for a lot.

What were the circumstances? A camera in an industrial area seems unlikely as does a police presence in normal circumstances. Was this at some sort of car meet or cruise?

I hope this was not in Scotland, where a dangerous driving charge would be quite likely for that excess speed.


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NewJudge
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:50
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Provided all is well with the signage, etc. there is probably nothing you can do to defend the matter and very little you can offer in mitigation. A guilty plea (via the Single Justice process) will certainly see the matter adjourned and you will be asked to attend a full court hearing with a view to disqualification.

I believe your chances of avoiding a ban are as close to zero as you can get. The Magistrates' sentencing guidelines for speeds above 51mph suggest either a ban of between 7 and 56 days or six points. If you are lucky you may encounter a Bench which has not read this additional guidance:

"Where an offender is driving grossly in excess of the speed limit the court should consider a disqualification in excess of 56 days."

But I doubt it. I think you can look forward to being off the road for at least three months. You will also pay a fine of a week's net income, a surcharge of 10% of the fine and £85 costs (all assuming you plead guilty).

Just out of interest, what were the circumstances that meant you drove at such a speed in an industrial area?
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gallorgs
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:43
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Hi Guys

Thanks for the replies, i really appreciate it

Some of you have asked me some questions

First was why was i speeding, to be honest it was just momentary lapse (no excuse)

I wasn't going to a "car meet or a cruise" i was just going to work

I forgot to mention i am registered disabled & cannot walk very far at all & need my car to get around

I mentioned my son is diagnosed as autistic, so sometimes he has meltdowns at school & either the school or he cant cope & needs to come home so i would be phoned first

Would these reasons be a good mitigating circumstances

cheers

PS - i think i will have some questions about the Single Justice Procedure Notice

Thanks for all your help with this i'm not the most confident or bright person in the world

This post has been edited by gallorgs: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:44
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NewJudge
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:50
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QUOTE (gallorgs @ Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 12:43) *
I forgot to mention i am registered disabled & cannot walk very far at all & need my car to get around

I mentioned my son is diagnosed as autistic, so sometimes he has meltdowns at school & either the school or he cant cope & needs to come home so i would be phoned first

Would these reasons be a good mitigating circumstances


They are not mitigating circumstances. Mitigation is factors that reduce the seriousness of the offence. What you are explaining is "hardship". A formal "Exceptional Hardship" argument is not available to you. It is only available in the event of a "totting up" ban. But the court will listen to what you have to say. If your speed was in the low 50s I would rate your chances of success with such an approach reasonably high. But at 70mph I would be very surprised if you succeed. But you never know. Personally I would be making arrangements to deal with a ban.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:52
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gallorgs
post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 02:52
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Ok so it looks like from what everyone has said is that i should expect ban, which im not quite sure of as everyone on the mitigating circumstances templates everyone was doing over 100 mph 7 the only difference was that they had their own business.

I need some help with the Single Justice Procedure Notice please, i presume this is where i can i state my case for hardship circumstances?
Should i provide evidence such as a letter from my employer, my proof of disability.

Also is it better to attend court in person or should i just plead guilty & let magistrate decide in my absence

Cheers

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The Rookie
post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 07:27
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You can’t strictly state a case for hardship, as pointed out a above, that’s for totting cases.

To be honest I doubt very much you’ll avoid a ban here, for 60 maybe, 70 no.

While they can, it’s very unlikely the Single Justice will ban you, and certainly wouldn’t accept some plea not to for that speed, so the case will be transferred to the magistrates court and you expected to attend, so it really doesn’t matter overly much what you write at all.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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andy_foster
post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 08:49
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QUOTE (gallorgs @ Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 03:38) *
OK so i have been caught on camera for doing 70 mph in a 30 zone in a very Industrial zone at about 7.50 am on Saturday 6th July

I received the notice to prosecute letter within 14 days which was all correct
<...>



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 06:52) *
Once the driver is named (have you already done that?) <...>



QUOTE (gallorgs @ Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 12:43) *
Thanks for the replies, i really appreciate it

Some of you have asked me some questions
<...>


It might be helpful to answer Simon's question above...


--------------------
Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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gallorgs
post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 11:07
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Hi Andy

I don't know who Simon is?

And i stated in my second sentence that i received the notice to prosecute letter

And it was all correct

cheers
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Jlc
post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 11:26
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Simon (Rookie) is the question quoted above...

Has the driver been named.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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gallorgs
post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 12:21
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HI JLC

Yes the driver was named on the notice to prosecute form

I do have a question about Signs though

So i have to turn right on a roundabout on to the road where i was caught but i just noticed there is no Soeed limit sign at all on this road

I would have thought a sign would have been placed after the roundabout

Does anyone know about Signs, could this help me

If anyone is interested i can tell you there so that you can google map it

Thanks
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trubster
post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 12:46
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Post a street view link, but in a 30 MPH zone, there is no repeater signage where there are a system of lamp posts.
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gallorgs
post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 14:09
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I don't know how to do a street view link, sorry
There is street lighting so that's the end of that idea

Although there's loads of 30 mph with no lights & 40 mph which does have light

Does anyone know does it state in law that if the road has street lightning then it must be a 30 mph zone

cheers
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Jlc
post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 14:37
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QUOTE (gallorgs @ Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 15:09) *
Does anyone know does it state in law that if the road has street lightning then it must be a 30 mph zone

Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984:

Section 82(1)(a) defines a restricted road in England and Wales as a road on which there is provided "a system of street lighting furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 200 yards apart". Section 81 makes it an offence for a person to drive a motor vehicle at a speed of more than 30 mph on a restricted road.

QUOTE (gallorgs @ Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 15:09) *
I don't know how to do a street view link, sorry

Tell us the name/location...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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gallorgs
post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 15:16
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The location was Timothy Bottoms Road in Stratford upon Avon

Thanks
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The Rookie
post Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 15:23
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Or did you mean Timothy’s Bridge road?

https://goo.gl/maps/H2gHGzAL3QRJ94Ks7

Complaint system of street lighting, so a 30 mph limit, just like the Highway Code tells you is the case.

But there is an extra sign in case you didn’t know that

https://goo.gl/maps/1WGCasHYrU2aG8kEA

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 15:25


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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gallorgs
post Sun, 15 Sep 2019 - 02:53
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So it looks like im going to get a fine & a ban

Does anyone think i should get a solicitor?

From what most people are saying its pointless in not stating any hardship circumstances but should i try it anyway

So i just wait until Christmas time to get the summons

Any other advice please

cheers


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