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Newham NTO served, no PCN given by post or in person
l33sha
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 10:20
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Ok I can’t find my last post but here’s what happened. Parked on a single yellow, was going to move the car in the morning when the restricted parking starts (8am). Got out to my car at 8.30am and I see a CEO further up the road on his motorbike. He’s seen me unlock my car, also watches me walk back in to grab the kids to move the car. So I load up the kids in the car, get in, and start the car. CEO walks up to me and he says “I have a ticket for this car”. there was nothing printed on his machine, nothing coming out of the end of it, he was nowhere near my car when I saw him, he only approached me when he saw I was about to move it. Anyway I replied “no you don’t” because I thought he didn’t and I wasn’t going to wait around to allow him time to fill in the form and hand me a ticket so I moved the car to a bay, he does nothing, gets back on his motorbike and was doing something on his machine. I’m still on the road talking to a neighbour for about 15-20mins, so the CEO had the chance to hand me the supposed ticket if he indeed did have one for my car, but he didn’t, and he rode off on his motorbike.

This all happened 19th July - fast forward to today I Get an NTO through the post which doesn’t offer me any chance of paying a PCN at the reduced price, never got a PCN through the post. He didn’t hand the PCN to me as the NTO states, photos he took were at 8.29am and the PCN was issued at 8.33am. I’m not sure what he did with the paper ticket? He didn’t go back to put it on my car either. He has no photos of the PCN on the car as obviously he’s claimed he’s given it to me which did not happen in the presence of a neighbour.

Any help appreciated - I’m so angry at his blatant lie!

NTO here https://imgur.com/a/u7XhRkm

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post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 10:20
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l33sha
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 10:38
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Also just to add: the PCN issue time of 8.33am was after I moved the car because at 8.33am I was already out of the car and noticed my neighbour had a PCN on his windscreen so I called him at exactly 8.33am to tell him (mobile call log confirms this)
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Incandescent
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 10:42
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OK, so the contravention would seem to be admitted, but you are claiming the PCN wasn't served, which from your account seems to be true. However in cases like this, it is your word against the CEO's so it will be important when you submit reps to state that no PCN was served to myself or the car, and you have a witness to that effect.

They have been really stupid because they could have served a Regulation 10 PCN because you drove off before it could be served, but they didn't. If they had, then you would be bang-to-rights. However, no service of a PCN means any subsequent documents are invalid. So your next step is to submit reps stating that at no time was a PCN served, and your neighbour will confirm this. Tick the box for the statutory grounds of "Procedural impropriety" and send off your reps.
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l33sha
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 10:54
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Yes I was half expecting a postal PCN but nothing came through so I thought he hadn’t actually issued a ticket and was just bluffing. Great - do the photos he took also have to show he waited? All the photos on the website have the time stamp of 8.29, which doesn’t show waiting. I can’t remember if this holds any weight or is just a recommendation that they have to have two photos with different time stamps.
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stamfordman
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 11:01
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The usual practice in London is to allow 2 mins before issuing a PCN on a yellow after the start of the restriction so I reckon the CEO has been naughty here in addition to not serving the PCN, as it seems you'd moved car before 8.33.

"Where a time restriction applies, CEOs should not issue a PCN less than two minutes before a restriction starts or less than two minutes after the restriction has expired. For example, if a restriction starts (or paid-for time expires) at 8.00am then a PCN should only be issued if the vehicle is in contravention after 8.02am. Similarly, if a restriction ends at 6.00pm then no PCNs should be issued after 5.58pm. It should be stressed that a vehicle in such a situation does not have the right to be in place for two minutes – this is not a grace period."
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cp8759
post Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 19:45
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Let's see the council photos.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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l33sha
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 23:22
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Hi - sorry photos attached here https://imgur.com/a/XMovyN5

These are all the photos he uploaded
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hcandersen
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 09:13
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You must reinstate or simply tell us the location (preferably link to GSV) otherwise we cannot see the full context.

And the resident's parking permit??

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 09:17
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Gert
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 10:08
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Couple of things in your account that appear odd. You realise a CEO is in the area and you are at risk of getting a PCN. So you go to unlock your car, then go to collect your children. In you get and then park in a permit bay and then speak to a neighbour for 20 minutes. Why go the vehicle without the children to start with, and why take them with you if you were only moving down the street to a permissible parking place?

Anyway suspicions aside, the images taken by the CEO you have providedpre-date the PCN issue. Your challenge would be one of you had parked on the SYL in order to safely escirt your children from your home at xx Blah Street to where you had parked outside yy Blah Street. You were very surprised to get the NtO as your vehicle was not issued with a PCN not were you handed one. The council's own images show there is no PCN attached to the vehicle, explain that you had started the vehicle and were already in the process of manoeuvring off the line when the CEO approached your vehicle. The images the LA have (if this is all there is) do not show the PCN has being issued, indeed they were taken prior to the supposed issuing. This means there is insufficient evidence with which to enforce the PCN.
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l33sha
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 18:27
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Reinstate what? I’ve redacted resident parking permit but I am within the valid parking zone for this resident permit. There is information on the resident permit which is identifiable.

And as I’ve mentioned in my original post I spoke to a neighbour because we were discussing how much of a nuisance the situation was, he also got a ticket and as neighbours you normally stop and chat...what’s odd about that? As for the kids issue I’m not sure why it matters? But as I’m being transparent here’s the explanation:

The car was outside my house, directly outside, I unlocked it while still in my front garden, in a panic I’ve forgotten the kids normally follow me out the door when I go outside - aged 3 years old and 1 year old - so I thought I better just go back inside and grab them rather than just leave them inside with their dad asleep upstairs. Again time of the essence and I just had to do what I could to get off the single yellow. Again nothing odd about that I don’t understand why anyone would think it’s odd to make sure your young children are safely inside the house or with you? It’s not safe to leave the kids in the situation they would be left in so I went back to get them.

If you’re thinking I’m deliberately trying to skew the specifics of the event - I’m not. It is exactly how it happened.
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cp8759
post Sun, 15 Sep 2019 - 12:21
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Redacting the location is most unhelpful, as we then can't then confirm the CPZ hours or entry points. However ultimately the council in these circumstances is required to serve a regulation 10 (if the CEO was unable for whatever reason to serve a regulation 9A PCN), or serve a regulation 9A PCN.

The lack of photographic evidence of service or prevented service supports the view that no PCN was served and in the circumstances service of the Notice to Owner is unlawful and a procedural impropriety. If those are all of the council photos, I would make reps based on this angle.

If you try putting a draft together, we'll tidy it up and put in the legal bits for you.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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