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PCN - Contravention Code 12 @ Highbury Place [Zone Em] on a matchday
ePCNnotice
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 13:45
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Hi all,

Hope all is well. Please help.

This PCN was on my car after I finished a local tennis leagues match yesterday afternoon (match finished before 16:00) at the Highbury Fields tennis courts. (ie. Sunday, 1st September 2019)

The Contravention code is 12 - Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or , or without payment pof the parking charge.voucher or pay and display ticket issues for that place where required. (@ Highbury Place [zone Em]).

Please see the below: (requires click to enlarge the images)

1. 2 x PCN images (front and back),
2. 2 x images - the entry to the street where I parked (Highbury Place - there were no signs/info of matchday when entering this street), and
3. 1 x image - the matchday signage at the entry to the CPZ zone (on Baalbec road). I checked again, Highbury Place is a left turn entry at the end of the Baalec road, which is at least 100m from where the matchday sign was located at the beginning of Baalbec road/entry from the busy main road.











I am not a football fan (I am a tennis fan.. lol) and I do not live in the area, so naturally the black and white matchday sign does not stand out to me at all when turning in from a busy main road - I genuinely did not aware of this and when I saw the PCN on the windscreen, I looked around the immediate area where the car was parked, there were no signs or info about matchday. . Also, £65 is loads of money (I can play many hours of tennis at the courts...lol)

I have read a few post already and I understand the Islington council does not take the above reasoning to cancel the PCN, therefore, based on the attached images/info, is there a chance for me to appeal this PCN?

Thank you for looking, any advises are greatly appreciated - please help me to appeal this PCN, thank you in advance.
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 14:14
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get the council photos, and post them They should be online


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ePCNnotice
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 14:32
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 15:14) *
get the council photos, and post them They should be online


Thank you, sorry didnt know that... here they are (needs clicking to enlarge, there are some more, but are just the close up of the car and sign etc).

Hope this is okay. Thank you again.







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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 15:02
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A couple of arguments can be made.

First that there is no indication of an event day on the sign Adjudicators do allow the zone entry sign, though it can be argued that these only control the yellow lines. And you put the council to proof that the signage was in place anyway. A bland statement would not suffice.

You can argue that as the PCN gives 5 contraventions that could be committed. If you are not the owner, when the owner receives a Notice to owner how would they work out what they had done wrong?


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ePCNnotice
post Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 11:41
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 16:02) *
A couple of arguments can be made.

First that there is no indication of an event day on the sign Adjudicators do allow the zone entry sign, though it can be argued that these only control the yellow lines. And you put the council to proof that the signage was in place anyway. A bland statement would not suffice.

You can argue that as the PCN gives 5 contraventions that could be committed. If you are not the owner, when the owner receives a Notice to owner how would they work out what they had done wrong?


thank you for taking the time to respond.

i am abit slow with these type of things - what would be the most suitable argument i can put forward to appeal?
lets say i started the appeal process via email, would they come back to ask for more information or do they take whatever i submitted the first time and decide on the outcome (ie. reject or withdraw).

thank you again.
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 11:45
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No this is what will almost certainly happen, although the council can cancel at any stage.

You make a challenge

council reject

council send notice to owner

you them make representations against that

council formally reject

You appeal to the independent adjudicator

you win or lose


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ePCNnotice
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 10:48
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morning,

I have received a response from the council today - they are upholding the PCN (not surprised with their "standard" response really....).
Please see below the response and please advise what I can do with making a representation against their decision? Thank you in advance.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear xxxxxx



Penalty Charge Notice No. xxxxxxxx Date of Issue 01/09/2019 at 14:14
Location of Contravention Highbury Place [Zone Em]



Thank you for your email regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) which was recently received at this office.

The PCN was issued for being parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place where required, or without payment of the parking charge.

From looking at the evidence provided, I can confirm that as 1 September 2019 was a match day, additional controls were in place. Match day controls are in operation when football matches and other events are taking place at the Emirates Stadium. The time plate clearly states that match day controls applied to this bay and gives details of the actual restricted times.

Information on whether it is a match day is shown on adjustable signs at all entry points to the Controlled Parking Zone. I am satisfied that you would have had to have passed at least one of these signs on your route to Highbury Place.

With the above in mind, I am satisfied the contravention occurred and therefore the PCN will be upheld.


(various pictures already linked above where the car was parked & the road signage)



As the PCN was issued correctly, payment is now due. I have decided that we can accept the discounted amount of £65.00 provided we receive that before 29 October 2019. Please bear in mind that on that date the charge will increase to £130.00.

If you wish to continue to contest the matter, the next stage is that a Notice to Owner will be sent to the person responsible for the penalty charge. This is a necessary legal step and further correspondence will only delay this process.

I am afraid you are unlikely to get a further opportunity to make discounted payment. However, the Notice to Owner will establish liability for the Penalty Charge Notice and the grounds under which representations may be made. If representations are made at this stage and they are rejected, there will be the right of appeal to an independent Environment and Traffic Adjudicator.

You can make a credit or debit card payment on our automated payment line on 020 7527 8000 at any time. You can also pay on line at www.islington.gov.uk. If you prefer to pay by cheque, please make it payable to LB Islington and send it to the above address. Please write the PCN number on the back of the cheque. You may also send postal orders (quoting the PCN number).


Yours sincerely
xxxxxxxxxxxx
Correspondence and Appeals Officer
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cp8759
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 20:17
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Well to take this further you must first wait for the Notice to Owner. Is the vehicle registered to you, i.e. do you have the V5C?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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ePCNnotice
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 22:16
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 21:17) *
Well to take this further you must first wait for the Notice to Owner. Is the vehicle registered to you, i.e. do you have the V5C?

Okay thank you. I will wait for the notice to owner arrive.

Yes I am the registered owner for this vehicle.
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hcandersen
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 10:50
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If it were my money, I'd go all the way to adjudication.

IMO, the council's position is untenable.

Don't worry about the photos, look at GSV.

I defy ANYBODY to read, let alone digest, all the written info on the sign on the nearside carriageway as a motorist turns into Baalbec from Highbury Road.

And this would be my argument. I would accept that I passed a CPZ sign - you could hardly deny this - but stress that you read this as being controls on waiting restrictions only and that you saw nothing on the sign to indicate that it controlled parking places. On looking at GSV and (the council's?) photos the enormity and IMO impossibility of the task becomes apparent: to read, learn and inwardly digest the information contained by a sign below which are placed no less than 3 supplementary plates each with a minimum of 25 characters with the one which conveys the crucial information in your case being the last plate. In total over 100 characters on these three supplemental plates all apparently to be absorbed in the 2-3 seconds it takes to travel the distance from the junction to the sign while in the process of executing a safe right/left turn when at the same time one's eye is drawn to the central refuge and its implications.

I therefore make representations (perhaps subsequent appeal) on the basis that the contravention did not occur because the council have failed to convey the restriction contrary to their duty under the Traffic Order Procedure etc. regulations.

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ePCNnotice
post Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 18:55
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 11:50) *
If it were my money, I'd go all the way to adjudication.

IMO, the council's position is untenable.

Don't worry about the photos, look at GSV.

I defy ANYBODY to read, let alone digest, all the written info on the sign on the nearside carriageway as a motorist turns into Baalbec from Highbury Road.

And this would be my argument. I would accept that I passed a CPZ sign - you could hardly deny this - but stress that you read this as being controls on waiting restrictions only and that you saw nothing on the sign to indicate that it controlled parking places. On looking at GSV and (the council's?) photos the enormity and IMO impossibility of the task becomes apparent: to read, learn and inwardly digest the information contained by a sign below which are placed no less than 3 supplementary plates each with a minimum of 25 characters with the one which conveys the crucial information in your case being the last plate. In total over 100 characters on these three supplemental plates all apparently to be absorbed in the 2-3 seconds it takes to travel the distance from the junction to the sign while in the process of executing a safe right/left turn when at the same time one's eye is drawn to the central refuge and its implications.

I therefore make representations (perhaps subsequent appeal) on the basis that the contravention did not occur because the council have failed to convey the restriction contrary to their duty under the Traffic Order Procedure etc. regulations.


Thank you very much for this.

I have just email back to the officer to inform her that I still have not received the Notice to Owner in mail (it’d be one week tomorrow) and that she will need to send/resend to me. This has obviously delayed the process for the next steps.

Does this happen usually or are they playing the delay tactics?

Thanks again

This post has been edited by ePCNnotice: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 19:06
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cp8759
post Fri, 18 Oct 2019 - 16:37
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Well as the discount has been extended to 29 October, the NtO cannot be issued before the discount expires.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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ePCNnotice
post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 09:47
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 12:45) *
No this is what will almost certainly happen, although the council can cancel at any stage.

You make a challenge

council reject

council send notice to owner

you them make representations against that

council formally reject

You appeal to the independent adjudicator

you win or lose


QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 11:50) *
If it were my money, I'd go all the way to adjudication.

IMO, the council's position is untenable.

Don't worry about the photos, look at GSV.

I defy ANYBODY to read, let alone digest, all the written info on the sign on the nearside carriageway as a motorist turns into Baalbec from Highbury Road.

And this would be my argument. I would accept that I passed a CPZ sign - you could hardly deny this - but stress that you read this as being controls on waiting restrictions only and that you saw nothing on the sign to indicate that it controlled parking places. On looking at GSV and (the council's?) photos the enormity and IMO impossibility of the task becomes apparent: to read, learn and inwardly digest the information contained by a sign below which are placed no less than 3 supplementary plates each with a minimum of 25 characters with the one which conveys the crucial information in your case being the last plate. In total over 100 characters on these three supplemental plates all apparently to be absorbed in the 2-3 seconds it takes to travel the distance from the junction to the sign while in the process of executing a safe right/left turn when at the same time one's eye is drawn to the central refuge and its implications.

I therefore make representations (perhaps subsequent appeal) on the basis that the contravention did not occur because the council have failed to convey the restriction contrary to their duty under the Traffic Order Procedure etc. regulations.


Hello, thank you all for the posts so far. I have received a rejection letter from the Council after I made a Representation in December 2019.

I challenged this in December 2019 and they responded towards end of January 2020 (have been away and all sorts to date...).

The date of this letter is 23/01/20 and I understand the 28 day period ends on 20/02/20 (this probably not important, but I made a Representation via email on 03/12/19, and it has obviously taken them more than the standard 20 days to respond).

I know I should have posted this earlier, but with all sorts happening before and after the New Year, I have only able to pick this up to post the Council's rejection letter content and seek assistance in an efficient way to make an appeal.


I'd value all advice and support in making an appeal online - thank you in advance. smile.gif

Hope I have provided all info, please let me know if I need to provide more info. Thank you.



The council letter stated the below:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notice of Rejection of Representations:

Thank you for..........

The PCN was issued because the vehicle parked was in a resident's parking place without a valid permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher.

As you are now aware, restrictions applied on 1 September 2019 from noon until 4:30pm due to a football match that was taking placing at the Emirates Stadium.

I have noted your comments regarding the match day signage, but I am satisfied that it is clear and adequate and that it complies with regulatory requirements. The sign next to the bay the vehicle was parked in clear stated that additional restrictions apply on match days and gives the time that the extra restrictions are in force. It is the driver's responsibility to take note of this and to determine whether match day restrictions apply on the date that they are parking.

Information on when the next match day occurs is shown on adjustable signs at all entry points to, and throughout, the match day zone. You say that you passed the zone entry signs at the entrance to Baalbec Road and I have included photographs of them below (there is one placed at either side of the road).

The council formally rejects your representations. This means that your options are either to pay the penalty charge or to appeal to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators. Whichever one you choose, you should do this before the end of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice of rejection. The adjudicator may allow a longer period if you submit your appeal after the end of 28 days period and set out the reasons for the delay.

N the council will accept the discounted amount of £65 in full and final settlement of this matter provided it is received by 10 February 2020. After that date the full penalty charge of £130 will be payable.
If you have not paid the penalty charge or appealed by end of the 28 day period, the Council may serve a Charge Certificate ad may increase the charge to £195.

(payment terms & options)
(appeal procedure etc)

An adjudicator shall not normally make an order awarding costs and expenses but may make such an order:

a) Against either party if they are of the opinion that the party has acted frivolously or vexatiously or that their conduct in marking, pursuing or rejecting the appeal was wholly unreasonable; or
b) Against an enforcement authority where they consider that the disputed decision was wholly unreasonable.
An adjudicator may only make an order awarding cost and expenses against a party, as detailed above, where the party has been given the opportunity of making representations against the making of the order.

Yours sincerely
Xxxx Xxxxx
Correspondence and Appeals Officer
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 11:37
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Do the Council photos have a shot of the sign and the car? If so the case about duff signage is weakened because the OP parked just about beneath this sign:-

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5496446,-0....6384!8i8192


Maybe Bogsy's 12 card shuffle might work.

Mick
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ePCNnotice
post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 11:57
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 12:37) *
Do the Council photos have a shot of the sign and the car? If so the case about duff signage is weakened because the OP parked just about beneath this sign:-

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5496446,-0....6384!8i8192


Maybe Bogsy's 12 card shuffle might work.

Mick

Thank you Mick,

I have uploaded all the photos from the council's image site to Post #3 of this thread and this photo sort of makes out the (unreadable) sign just above the car.





There is however a photo of the street signage by itself, without the image of the car though....



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cp8759
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 15:10
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Post the rejection letter in full, redact just your name and address. If you don't have access to a computer, PM me on here and I'll do it for you. We don't work off transcripts.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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ePCNnotice
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 15:30
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 16:10) *
Post the rejection letter in full, redact just your name and address. If you don't have access to a computer, PM me on here and I'll do it for you. We don't work off transcripts.


Hi, thank you for this. I have taken the both sides of the rejection letter. Please see the below photos/links. I look forward to your thoughts and advice. thank you again.



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stamfordman
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 21:53
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If this were me I think I'd settle at discount to make it go away - essentially you're up against the whole ethos of the Emirates event zone signage as we've seen also with Newham's London stadium one but Islington zones are better signed.

But genuinely being unfamiliar with the presence of a (massive) stadium and Arsenal very near could be something an adjudicator would buy and I'd throw in what Hackney does nearby which is provide an info line on at least some parking sign posts:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5663767,-0....6384!8i8192

There is also the technical angle that zone signage does not control bays, only yellow lines.
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Neil B
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 23:17
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 21:53) *
If this were me I think I'd settle at discount to make it go away

So would I but he's beyond that and only mentioned the rejection beyond that point.

Minor error in rejection; referring to the wrong kind of bay.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 23:19


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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ePCNnotice
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 23:57
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 00:17) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 21:53) *
If this were me I think I'd settle at discount to make it go away

So would I but he's beyond that and only mentioned the rejection beyond that point.

Minor error in rejection; referring to the wrong kind of bay.


Thank you both.
I was genuinely not aware how close the Emirates stadium was to the Highbury Fields tennis courts, hence the situation I am in.

I am also not sure of the mentioned error in the wrong kind of bay. Is this something worthwhile to “argue against”?

I understand I am outside the “normal” which I am kicking myself about, but there is nothing I can do about that now.

What would be my best options now. Thank you again.
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