Can councils charge more to pay by cash? |
Helping the motorist get justice 
Helping the motorist get justice
Can councils charge more to pay by cash? |
 Sat, 31 Aug 2019 - 20:31
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#1
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 Webmaster  Group: Root AdminPosts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2  |
Just curious really, but since I'm no expert on council parking I thought I'd ask...
Can councils (Reading, in this case) actually impose massively different parking charges dependent solely on the payment method? QUOTE RBC has now reduced the daily charge from a maximum of £10 to £3 for RingGo app users and parking for 30 minutes is free except for the 20p ‘convenience charge’.
A maximum £10 fee still remains for pay and display machine users. -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Sat, 31 Aug 2019 - 20:31
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Sun, 1 Sep 2019 - 09:49
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
Lawfully as long as charges match the TRO I cannot see why not.
Collateral challenges such as discriminating against those who prefer cash or are not tech minded, often elderly could be possible. But places like Barnett got away with removing cash from options of how to pay years back and many others have gone to phone payments only, even if only by default by not repairing machines. |
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Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 07:04
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,285 Joined: 5 Jan 2012 Member No.: 52,178 |
Looking the other way round, councils (and others) are quite happy to charge more for pay by phone/app, citing the need to cover the costs of RingGo et al. Yet they don't consider the savings they make in not having to handle all that cash.
Or put another way, they'll always find a way to fleece you and make up any reason they like to do so. |
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Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 15:37
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,705 Joined: 20 May 2004 From: Lincolnshire Member No.: 1,224 |
Our local council wanted did a deal to bring in card payments and apps instead of coins to save money, they then went public with the plan and faced so much criticism they first delayed it and then after complaining it was costing them too much to store the new machines finally introduced it in some car parks but added coins back into the mix. They now have a more expensive scheme to operate that brings in the same money it took before as the paying customer doesn't want to pay a 20p "convenience" charge on a 60p parking session. If that wasn't bad enough they never did get round to changing the parking orders which state that payment must be made by coin and a ticket must be displayed - both hard to do if you use the app.
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Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 16:59
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#5
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Webmaster Group: Root AdminPosts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
QUOTE (jdh @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 16:37)  the paying customer doesn't want to pay a 20p "convenience" charge on a 60p parking session. Imagine how delighted the customers of Reading BC are going to be at having to pay the 20p "convenience" fee for half an hour of free parking, then! -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 12:39
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,217 Joined: 24 Mar 2013 From: Scotland Member No.: 60,732 |
Is there any suggestion of councils actually charging more for paying cash? I mean more than they used to charge, or more than the published price. If not then you could look at it as a discount for those paying with the app, although I agree that doesn't make as good a headline.
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Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 15:15
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#7
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Webmaster Group: Root AdminPosts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
QUOTE (TonyS @ Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 13:39) Is there any suggestion of councils actually charging more for paying cash? Well, I'd say £3 if you use the app but £10 if you use the P&D machines is a lot more than a cash handling discount. -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 18:28
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#8
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 1,535 Joined: 16 Jan 2009 From: Up north Member No.: 25,505 |
i seem to remember that it was found to be illegal for the councils to charge a premium for credit card payments. this seems to be the other side of the coin.
-------------------- Bridges burnt, Rubicons crossed. Parthian shots delivered, but always with style
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Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 21:10
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,931 Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Member No.: 4,323 |
Dig out the TRO (not from that godawful on-line TRO repository)
-------------------- Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.
Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader. |
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Wed, 4 Sep 2019 - 13:25
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,217 Joined: 24 Mar 2013 From: Scotland Member No.: 60,732 |
QUOTE (Fredd @ Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 16:15) QUOTE (TonyS @ Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 13:39) Is there any suggestion of councils actually charging more for paying cash? Well, I'd say £3 if you use the app but £10 if you use the P&D machines is a lot more than a cash handling discount. Sorry, I should have said more than they used to charge for cash, not more than they now charge for other payment methods. The quote reads as if cash prices are unchanged. QUOTE RBC has now reduced the daily charge from a maximum of £10 to £3 for RingGo app users and parking for 30 minutes is free except for the 20p ‘convenience charge’. A maximum £10 fee still remains for pay and display machine users. |
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Sun, 15 Sep 2019 - 20:06
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
QUOTE (Fredd @ Sat, 31 Aug 2019 - 21:31) Just curious really, but since I'm no expert on council parking I thought I'd ask... Can councils (Reading, in this case) actually impose massively different parking charges dependent solely on the payment method? Providing they are not doing so for an improper purpose, I don't see how we could argue this is unlawful. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 15 Sep 2019 - 21:26
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#12
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Webmaster Group: Root AdminPosts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
The reason it struck me as unreasonable is that they're disadvantaging drivers who are unable to use an app or mobile phone if they pay with cash for one parking period, while being quite happy to accept cash as an alternative payment method for other parking periods in the exact same location.
-------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 06:56
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#13
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 56,260 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
One could argue discrimination against the elderly who are much less likely to have a smart phone (my Dad doesn't).
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 14:18
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 07:56) One could argue discrimination against the elderly who are much less likely to have a smart phone (my Dad doesn't). A claim could be brought under the Equality Act I suppose, the first step would be via the council's complaints procedure. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 22:44
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#15
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 1,571 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 15:18) A claim could be brought under the Equality Act I suppose, the first step would be via the council's complaints procedure. Could such a claim be brought by drivers of diesel engined vehicles who are charged a surcharge just because of the type of engine fitted to the vehicle? After all it is discriminatory. |
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Tue, 17 Sep 2019 - 08:06
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#16
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 33,634 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
QUOTE (Korting @ Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 23:44) QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 15:18) A claim could be brought under the Equality Act I suppose, the first step would be via the council's complaints procedure. Could such a claim be brought by drivers of diesel engined vehicles who are charged a surcharge just because of the type of engine fitted to the vehicle? After all it is discriminatory. Is it discriminatory in relation to a protected characteristic? -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 22:17
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
QUOTE (Korting @ Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 23:44) QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 15:18) A claim could be brought under the Equality Act I suppose, the first step would be via the council's complaints procedure. Could such a claim be brought by drivers of diesel engined vehicles who are charged a surcharge just because of the type of engine fitted to the vehicle? After all it is discriminatory. Discrimination is not illegal as such. You could argue that our income tax and welfare system discriminates against the rich and in favour of the poor, but I don't see many well remunerated senior managers in FTSE 100 companies claiming that they're being discriminated against. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 22:26
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#18
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Webmaster Group: Root AdminPosts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 23:17) You could argue that our income tax and welfare system discriminates against the rich and in favour of the poor You could, but... In any case, the rich move their income and assets offshore. For example there's a reason so many F1 drivers are domiciled in Monaco, and it doesn't have much to do with a love of extremely cramped streets. -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 22:35
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 23:26) QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 23:17) You could argue that our income tax and welfare system discriminates against the rich and in favour of the poor You could, but... In any case, the rich move their income and assets offshore. For example there's a reason so many F1 drivers are domiciled in Monaco, and it doesn't have much to do with a love of extremely cramped streets. I would point out that, as per https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39641222 This chart from the Institute for Fiscal Studies shows that about 90% of income tax is paid by the 50% of taxpayers with the highest incomes, while more than a quarter is paid by the richest 1%. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 23:23
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#20
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Webmaster Group: Root AdminPosts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
Fine, but what are their effective tax rates? I wouldn't mind paying £1m in tax if my income was £10m, whereas there might be 200 people earning £25k paying the same amount in total but rather unhappy to be paying at twice the rate.
-------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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