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Out of hours loading bay ticket, Advice please
sooty12113
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 06:43
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Hi All

I parked on a street in my local town centre, that is meter operated from 8am to 6pm on a stretch of the road with a loading bay section marked on the road at the end.

I parked up for approximately 30 minutes at 7.30pm with all the local shops shut believing the loading bay wasn't operational at this time and I was free to use it.

I have received a PCN that states I was observed for 10 minutes not loading, when I objected stating I didn't believe the section was loading bay after 6pm, I have been told parking without loading is not permitted at any time. However there is no sign that says that.

Is the ticket therefore enforceable ?

Thanks
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post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 06:43
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Incandescent
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 08:39
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QUOTE (sooty12113 @ Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 07:43) *
Hi All

I parked on a street in my local town centre, that is meter operated from 8am to 6pm on a stretch of the road with a loading bay section marked on the road at the end.

I parked up for approximately 30 minutes at 7.30pm with all the local shops shut believing the loading bay wasn't operational at this time and I was free to use it.

I have received a PCN that states I was observed for 10 minutes not loading, when I objected stating I didn't believe the section was loading bay after 6pm, I have been told parking without loading is not permitted at any time. However there is no sign that says that.

Is the ticket therefore enforceable ?

Thanks

As usual, (look at the other threads), please post up the PCN, all sides with PCN Number and vehicle details blanked out. Leave everything else in. Also give us a GSV reference to the location so we can look around.
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sooty12113
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 09:37
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I did do a search but couldn't find a similar case.
I'm at work and don't have the PCN with me but this is the location.

I was parked outside this closed store


https://maps.app.goo.gl/Gf28DBdtVSSNg81z8
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stamfordman
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 09:55
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here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2342531,-1....3312!8i6656

Where there are no times on a sign it applies 24/7.

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sooty12113
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 09:58
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My point was there was a sign for the parking meter area commencing 15 yards away saying charges apply 8am to 6pm. So assumed this meant same restriction applying to the loading area, as you've been able to capture both signs I assume I am liable but isn't there an argument for being misled ?

This post has been edited by sooty12113: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 10:03
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stamfordman
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 10:31
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QUOTE (sooty12113 @ Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 10:58) *
My point was there was a sign for the parking meter area commencing 15 yards away saying charges apply 8am to 6pm. So assumed this meant same restriction applying to the loading area, as you've been able to capture both signs I assume I am liable but isn't there an argument for being misled ?


A parking bay is controlled only by its sign. A sign in another bay might just as well be on another planet.

having said that it would be better practice to have better demarcation between the bays and for the loading bay sign to be more prominent. But you were not misled that it was a loading bay.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 10:38
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sooty12113
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 10:50
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True I wasn't but I never dreamed it would apply when there is nothing open to load to/from
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stamfordman
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 11:09
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QUOTE (sooty12113 @ Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 11:50) *
True I wasn't but I never dreamed it would apply when there is nothing open to load to/from


Shops often load out of opening hours.

Sorry not be of more help - post all the PCN anyway as there may be faults.
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cp8759
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 12:10
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Banged-to-rights on the contravention (The notional diligent motorist checks the signs every time they park in a bay - you should never make assumptions), but show us the PCN (both sides in full) as there might be an error in the small print.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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sooty12113
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 18:56
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I'll post up the PCN tomorrow when I have access to a scanner but maybe it isn't necessary as it does support my point as it states

"Parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading

Code 25

Time of contravention 19:30

Observed from 19:24 to 19:30"



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cp8759
post Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 00:11
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It is necessary because what we're looking at is whether the PCN complies with the regulations, this is normally determined by examining all the small print on the back.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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sooty12113
post Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 06:09
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Sorry for some reason the PDF copy of the PCN won't load it's only 94kb in size.

What I can say is the PCN adds nothing further, front or reverse from what I have quoted apart from how to pay, identification of the incident details and how to challenge.

This states "details of the Enforcement Authorities Policy and approach to challenges can be found at www.parksmarter.org.uk"

I think I have a case when the PCN says I parked during restricted hours when the only restricted hours quoted was 8am to 6pm in the parking meter stretch but obviously I am not an expert in these matters so any advice appreciated

This post has been edited by sooty12113: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 06:28
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stamfordman
post Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 08:32
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let's see the whole PCN. Take pics of it and put on https://imgbb.com or such like.
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sooty12113
post Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 11:53
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https://ibb.co/KWsx9g8
https://ibb.co/r2r5NL4

Thanks hopefully you can see it via the above link
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cp8759
post Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 13:39
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Re-post the front of the PCN with all details visible, except the number plate. Everything else (date, location etc..) is stuff you've either told us already, or it's not really personal data anyway.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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sooty12113
post Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 14:10
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Take 2


https://ibb.co/RTLs7Q3
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stamfordman
post Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 14:45
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I presume you challenged this PCN as you are way out of time otherwise as it was issued on 10 July.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 14:45
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cp8759
post Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 14:54
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Well the 28 day period expired on 6 August and the discount two weeks before that, so no point in paying now. Are you the registered keeper? If not, who is?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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sooty12113
post Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 16:09
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Yes I challenged it on the basis I believed the time restriction was over, payment extended to next week
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cp8759
post Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 16:20
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QUOTE (sooty12113 @ Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 17:09) *
Yes I challenged it on the basis I believed the time restriction was over, payment extended to next week

So have you got a rejection letter?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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